Call-In Classic Christianity Radio – Bob George P578 (10-09-20)
Synopsis
As you read the scriptures, there are some passages you find that are just difficult to understand, particularly passages in Ezekiel and Revelation. In such cases, all you can say is, “I do not know”, and that is okay. There are those things, like in Ezekiel, that can be considered interpretive speculation as to what they represent. Unless it is spelled out in detail that this is what it represents, it is just speculation. It is best to just hold onto those passages that are clear, that you know is true.
The most important message to understand from the scriptures, and the scriptures are very clear on this, is the gospel, the message of good news that Jesus tells us in order to enter heaven. I would not advise asking someone whether they believe in heaven or hell, but rather ask them if you ever discovered knowing Christ in a personal way. That is what they really need to be able to come to have an answer from the scriptures.
Oftentimes, people hesitate to share truth someone needs to hear, thinking that actions speak louder than your words. Although actions are important, the real issue that a lost person is facing is that he is hurting inside, and that hurt can only be solved and comforted by Christ Jesus. Jesus demonstrated all kinds of wonderful actions of love and he was still rejected. Even today, so many seek for what is temporary, such as looking at Jesus as just a miracle worker, but would fail to come to Him to receive life. It is truth that sets men free, and ultimately, the truth of the gospel must be told.
Other times people ask questions about the Trinity, which means God is one, and God is Father, God is Son, and God is the Holy Spirit. Although we can never totally understand Trinity, we can apprehend it. We can apprehend it because so many scriptures record what Jesus said about the Trinity. One clear example is where all three are present when Jesus was baptized by John.
Luke 3:21-23
21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
The main point to know is that if Jesus was not God, then he could not eternally take away the sins of the world. If he was not born of a virgin, he would inherit the same sin of Adam that all other men inherited, and would have sin of his own. But Jesus is God, so death has no hold on Him. And since God is eternal, Jesus is God, so He lives forever. So by dying for our sins and rising again, he has solved the problem of sin and death that all men are under and offer all men eternal life in His name. That is the good news of the gospel.
Now, once you are born again, having heard the gospel, believed and received the new life Jesus offered, so the Holy Spirit takes up residence in you, you are in this process of being renewed in your thinking. This is called growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Chrsit. All of us, who are in Christ Jesus, will be learning to walk in the new life God has given.
A problem common to all men is depression. We overcome depression by holding onto the promises of God, of redirecting our mind to be focused on Him and on what we know is true, and fortifying our mind with truth. Knowing our identity in Christ Jesus as a child of God is a good start. Instead of our mind dwelling on our past or our future, on regrets or a painful past or anticipating the negative things that we think will happen in the future, we leave the past behind, because it is over and we cannot change it, and we do not worry about the future because that is God’s country. The God who is in my present will be in my future. And if I can trust Him for today, I can trust Him for my tomorrow.
There are so many truths that can help us refocus our mind. First of all, we must trust God that He will cause all things to happen for the good for those who love Him and are called according to His good purpose. We focus our mind on the fact that Jesus said He will never leave us or forsake us, that He has given us everything we need for life and godliness, that nothing can ever separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, that He lives in us to will and to act according to His good purposes, that He has given us His Spirit, where we can access the spiritual fruit of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.
We can make our requests be made known to God, with thanksgiving, and He promises us peace that surpasses all understanding. We learn to hold onto these truths, where we move them from head knowledge to heart knowledge, deep into our hearts and let them take root there. We learn to let our minds dwell on Christ’s sufficiency and provision, and focus our mind on whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, anything that is excellent or praiseworthy. What your mind is focused on will then affect how your emotions respond. Your emotions predictably respond to whatever you put in your mind. That is how we are made. Knowing the unconditional love and acceptance of God is so paramount to overcoming depression.
Transcript
Ricky from Los Angeles, CA
Ricky: Hi Bob. How is it going?
Bob: Good. Thank you.
Ricky: I have a question concerning angels. I have not read it, but heard it. There were four angels talked about in Revelation. The angels have four faces. I understand how the lion is represented for Matthew, the face of man for Luke, but how does the eagle line up with the book of John?
Bob: Ricky, all of that is speculation. Number one, I do not know anything about an angel with four faces in Revelation. It may be there, but not that I have recollection of.
Revelation 7:11
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
In Revelation 7:11, an angel is standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures but does not say anything about having four faces.
In Ezekiel is where you will read about creatures with four faces, that Ricky must be reading about. From reading Ezekiel, I sure cannot figure this out. I sure do not see it spelled out that each face represents a gospel writer, such as Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
Ezekiel 1:4-14
4 I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north – an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, 5 and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was human, 6 but each of them had four faces and four wings. 7 Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze. 8 Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. All four of them had faces and wings, 9 and the wings of one touched the wings of another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved.10 Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a human being, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle. 11 Such were their faces. They each had two wings spreading out upward, each wing touching that of the creature on either side; and each had two other wings covering its body. 12 Each one went straight ahead. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, without turning as they went. 13 The appearance of the living creatures was like burning coals of fire or like torches. Fire moved back and forth among the creatures; it was bright, and lightning flashed out of it. 14 The creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning.
Bob: A lot of times we hear things but do not read it in context, so you read things that are not really there. The issue is those things are interpretive speculation as to what they represent. Unless it is spelled out in detail that this is what it represents, it is just speculation. If that is not spelled out in detail, then it is truly speculation. What I have to do with those kinds, Ricky, is this. Those things I do know is all I know for sure. In end times, there is a lot of history associated with end times. I know end times are going to take place. I know there was a beginning. I also know there is an end. I am not going to be preoccupied with the beginning or the end. I am going to be preoccupied with what Jesus is preoccupied with, one day at a time. I have to get along with my wife today and not during the end times. If I am going to love a person, I have to love them today, not tomorrow for tomorrow is not here yet.
Bob: So, I think you have to put prophecy in its proper perspective. Yes, it is here. We do not always know its meaning, especially symbolic things. We do not know for sure. We can speculate. Sometimes we might be wrong in speculation, but we do not know for sure. Personally, from my point of view, and I am not saying I am right or wrong. I am going to latch on to what I know is true. Not hope it is true but what I know is true. What I know is true is the gospel we talk about every day. I know that is true and I know that truth sets me free. That is where I am going to camp.
Ricky: Okay. No problem. Thank you.
Bob: You sure are welcome. I appreciate your interest in it. Go back and read it more carefully and see what it says there.
Bob: First place is to ask, “what is that?” I do not know for sure. I can speculate on how Lindsay Graham says or Tim LaHaye says. That is all speculation. They do not know for sure. They may just think they know. I am going to go with what I do know.
Paul from Bellingham, WA
Paul: I am calling on an issue I need wisdom for. I want to share the word with my friends. I have a friend going through a divorce. I want to share the Word with my neighbor and my friend. I do not want to scare him away. I do not want to throw the bible at him and say this is the way to go. Do you have any encouragement for me to share? I know my actions speak louder than my words.
Bob: The actions of man can be somewhat important until I think about the behavior of Jesus and realize that they even rejected Him. You can be around a lot of nice people. There are nice appearing Muslims out there. There are nice Mormons out there. The Word of God is what people need to hear. People are hurting inside, with hearts aching, and you can tell them that that hurt can only be solved and comforted by Christ Jesus, the one who said, “come to me all those who labor and are heavy laden, come to me and I will give you peace”.
Matthew 11:28-29
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.”
Bob: If you are a child of God, and you know how you are saved, then you know how to communicate that. So communicate that to them the gospel as it stands. Ask the question, “Are you in Christ Jesus, or are you in the process?”. You are not judging. You realize it is a process people go through, in processing truth little by little. You do not have to worry about where they will be turned on or turned off by the message. Some people will be turned on and others will be turned off. That is a part of life. You cannot be running for sheriff and be a Christian. You cannot be interested in the opinions of men. You are loving and gentle to help people see their condition. One of the reasons you are in the condition of divorce is because you are dead inside. If he is a Christian and in divorce, then it is because he is not listening to Christ. Another possibility is if either spouse is a non-believer and is involved in behavior that warrants a divorce, including reasons of safety or protection of yourself and your children, if children are involved.
Paul: Should I ask, “Do you believe in heaven? Do you believe in hell?” Should we approach him that way?
Bob: No, ask them if you ever discovered knowing Christ in a personal way. Tell them a little of your own testimony. We are not talking about religion but a personal relationship with Christ. Have you ever come to know Him in a personal relationship? If they say “yes”, then ask them about their testimony. Then you will find out if they are lying to you or just confused about what you are saying. You are questioning people to help them see their condition. That is the first thing you do, to help people see their condition. If you never had something inside you called hunger, you would never go and get something to eat. You have to help them recognize there is something missing inside of them. Deal with those kinds of subjects. Find out where they are. Find out what their understanding of the gospel is. Then explain the fullness of the gospel to them. We are all born into this world dead and the reason is because we do not have the Spirit of life living in us. Take it from there.
Paul: I will take it from there.
Bob: Let me know how it goes.
Paul: I will let you know when the good news comes.
Danny from Nashville, TN
Danny: In my line of work, I meet a lot of people, and when appropriate I witness. Do you believe the Trinity?
Bob: The word Trinity is not in the bible. Neither is the rapture. But the scripture explains the concept of both. There is one God yet declared as three different persons; God the Son, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit.
- In one place, Jesus said I will raise myself from the dead (John 10:18)
- In another place, the Father raised him from the dead (Galatians 1:1, Romans 6:4)
- In another place, the Holy Spirit raised him from the dead (Romans 8:11)
- In another place, God raised him from the dead (Acts 2:24)
Bob: He was not raised four times. It was just a different way of saying God raised him from the dead.
Bob: As a seminary professor once said, “If you deny the Trinity you lose your soul. If you try to understand the Trinity, you lose your mind.”
John 4:24
24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.
Bob: What does Spirit look like? No one can see Spirit. People keep trying to put flesh and blood on Spirit. That is why people get confused in regards to the Trinity. God says He exists in the form of Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. We try to put flesh and blood on Spirit and we cannot. We are told to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28:19
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Bob: Yet people are teaching this ‘Jesus only’ bit. I do not know why people are trying to cause division in the body of Christ on this. Is there anything wrong with being baptized in the name of Jesus? No, but do not deny the source from God the Father. The source of all truth is God the Father.
John 15:26
26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father – the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father – he will testify about me.”
Bob: That wraps it all up in regards to the Trinity.
Danny then shared some scriptures.
Revelation 1:8
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
John 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
John 1:14
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full
of grace and truth.
Danny: So Jesus is God and God is Jesus.
Bob: So is the Holy Spirit God and so is the Father God.
Bob: I encourage people to quit putting flesh and blood on this. God is Spirit. If one reads in the scripture that Spirit is God, Father is God and Jesus is God, then you accept that as true. Who was Jesus talking to in the garden of Gethsemane? To himself? No, God the Father. Who lighted on Jesus like a dove when Jesus was being baptized by John in the Jordan river? The Spirit. Who spoke to him from heaven? The Father. This is my beloved Son. Listen to him.
Mark 14:32-36
32 They went to a place called Gethsemane, and Jesus said to his disciples, “Sit here while I pray.” 33 He took Peter, James and John along with him, and he began to be deeply distressed and troubled. 34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.”35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. 36 “Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”
Luke 3:21-22
21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
Bob: We cannot totally comprehend that. We can apprehend that. It is like an egg. Egg is made of yolk, white and the shell. Which one is the egg? You have yolk of the egg, white of the egg and the shell of the egg, but you only have one egg.
Danny: They say that when Jesus was on cross, he said “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.”
Genesis 1:1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Bob: God in Greek is the word “Elohim” Elohim is a plural word. Jewish rabbis scratch their head on that.
Genesis 1:26
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness
Genesis 11:7
7 “Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
Bob: Who is the “ our ” ? It was in the Old Testament but was not made clear until Jesus came and explained it.
1 Corinthians 15:27
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
Bob: These people doing this “Jesus only” are doing injustice. Much of what they teach is right on but this thing divides the body over an issue that is just not true.
Danny: Yes, you try to talk to them and they just do not get it. Should I just leave it alone?
Bob: Absolutely. Just leave it alone. Some people come along and think I know something they do not know. No you do not. I believe the denial of the Trinity is denying God. Denying the Trinity is denying who God is. It is the same as a Muslim denying who God is. Anyone who believes Jesus came over and dwelt here in America is not the Jesus of the bible.
Bob: Jesus said he does nothing unless the Father tells him to do it. Jesus also did not say anything until the Father told him to say it and how to say it.
John 5:19
19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.”
John 8:28
28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.”
Bob: How can anybody think Jesus is talking to himself? How can that exist? You and I cannot even understand electricity. People try to be so smart, thinking they understand Trinity. How can we understand Trinity? So quit trying to put flesh and blood on it. Accept as true what can be understood by what has been revealed in the scriptures.
Larry from Balk Spring, TX
Larry: I was asking about the seeming disconnect between Romans 2:13 and Romans 3:20.
Romans 2:13
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
Romans 3:20
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Bob: There is really no conflict between the two. You have to read those verses in context to know what Paul is saying.
Romans 2:12
12 All who sin apart from the law [the Gentiles] will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law [the Jews] will be judged by the law.
Bob: In other words, there is no one who escapes the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). What he is essentially saying is that the consequences of sin is death, whether Jew or Gentile, whether under the law or not under the law, and every man knows right from wrong. Now, he is talking about the Jew when he says it is not only those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law. Those who obey the law will be declared righteous. Now, has anyone ever obeyed the law? No.
Romans 3:20
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Bob: If there was a way to be declared righteous, it would be through complete obedience to the law and nobody has done that except Christ Jesus.
Larry: Right
Galatians 3:21
21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.
Stan from Denver, CO
Stan: I called not to ask a question, but to say thank you. I have been listening to your series on depression, probably fifteen times. Every time I listen to it, I pick up new information almost every time. I listen to it, to and from work. But, it has made such a difference in my attitude in my life. Depression is probably a think of my past now.
Bob: Great.
Stan: I also sent it to my sister. Depression runs in my family. I do not know if it is a biological problem or a training problem. But, I was on medication for depression, which just about pushed me over the edge. But it really did. My sister is on medication for depression. I just sent it to her. It is incredible the rethinking the Holy Spirit has done in my life. It is kind of hard to express. Just so many changes that have been made. The first one, God has given me everything I need for right now, and I live for today. My life is in God’s hands. Every morning, my wife and I pray and ask the Lord to help us through today. Stop living in the past. I could probably keep going on and on. There are so many things that have been corrected in my thinking. So, I wanted to call and say “Thank you.”
1 Thessalonians 5:11-15
11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.12 Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, to acknowledge those who work hard among you, who care for you in the Lord and who admonish you. 13 Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Live in peace with each other. 14 And we urge you, brothers and sisters, warn those who are idle and disruptive, encourage the disheartened, help the weak, be patient with everyone. 15 Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else.
Bob: Brother, thank you for doing that, Stan. It is evidence of what Jesus says, that truth sets you free. That means error binds you. When you are depressed, you are in error. You are bound up in depression. That means there is error in your head that has to be dispelled. That is true of all of us. If I am depressed and I can get depressed, it is very simple. I let my thinking get away from the truth of the gospel and the truth of scriptures and started believing the lie of Satan. But, the beauty of that is, you come to a point where you can immediately identify where those thoughts are coming from and give it back to who gave it to you, and that is Satan. Replace it with truth and let that truth set you free. It is the renewing of the mind. The mind controls everything we do. The renewing of the mind on truth and truth can only be found through Christ Jesus and His word. That sets you free.
John 8:32
32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
Romans 8:6
6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
Stan: I still have a few moments where it kind of wants to creep back. But I am starting to learn to rethink this. This is where it is coming from. This is what I can do, and it leaves. Between that series and your book called Classic Christianity, which kind of reinforces each other, in the fact that this is what Christianity and salvation is really all about. It has made a difference. At one point, it is like, “How can I witness to somebody when I do not have anything to offer them except rules and regulations. You cannot do this or or that. You have to behave in a certain fashion. You called it something like a hypothetical Christian. I cannot do that. But when I started letting Christ live through me and take control, those behaviors are a byproduct of what Christ has already done. It is just incredible. You want to get through this, let me tell you who can help you.
2 Corinthians 10:3-5
3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
Bob: It is a supernatural life, brother. No doubt about it. The motivation and source comes from God and that is supernatural. It is not necessarily miraculous. It is just supernatural. That is really what we have the privilege of living, a supernatural life. We do not have to depend on the natural when we can live a supernatural life in Christ Jesus. That is when we are able to come up with thoughts that are His, that produces a life that is not a life the lost person can produce.
Stan: One thing I request is prayer for my sister and my mom. I am going to buy a copy and send it to my mom. She grew up in a Mormon church and has struggled all her life. If I could see her free, it would mean so much. I will let you go. I just wanted to call and say “thank you.” I am very grateful.
Bob: God bless you, Stan. We appreciate your encouragement. Bye. Bye.
