Call-In Classic Christianity Radio – Bob George P595 (12-18-20)
Many callers ask questions that reveal the lack of understanding of what salvation is. Bob shares from the scriptures to help people understand what salvation really is. Many people think you can lose your salvation. If you think that, then you do not really know what salvation is. Salvation is being saved from the consequence of sin, which is death, by the gift of God, which is life. Many other people think salvation is getting your sins forgiven. Others think that you have to ask God for forgiveness when you sin. All such questions means that people have not understood the totality of the cross, what Jesus meant when He said, “It is finished!”, or that salvation is life, of being made complete in Christ.
Salvation is receiving new spiritual life. Getting sins forgiven is something Jesus alone did, when He shed His blood on a cross. He will not shed his blood again, and as we read in Hebrews, there is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood. Jesus’ death on a cross was a necessary preparation for life to be given. For if God did not take the just penalty of death for our sin, no one could be saved. Until we are taken out from that impossible system of the law, demanding perfection, not sinning once, we are without hope.
But if man does not realize he is a sinner, then what value would Jesus’ shed blood on a cross mean to him? So Jesus also lived in perfect love, love being the fulfillment of the law, where love does it’s neighbor no wrong. In showing us His righteousness, He showed us what we are like, totally unrighteous, that even our “good” deeds are like filthy rags before Him. We must come to recognize our condition of spiritual death, without the life of God in our hearts. Until then, we are not ready for the resurrection.
So God did something for us that we could not do for ourselves. We could not pay the penalty for sin and then expect to live again. We could not live a perfect life in order to enter the kingdom of God. There is nothing we can add or subtract from what God did for us by His death, burial and resurrection for us. We cannot add baptism, church attendance, or any sort of religious activity to what Christ has done. We must accept by faith what Christ alone has done for us. We must come to Him for life, for Christ Himself, who is eternal life.
When you receive Christ into your life by faith, you become a new creation, a child of God, with the Spirit of God living in you, who lives in you to will and to act according to His purpose, and who, being eternal, and will never die again, is sealed in you forever until the day of redemption, the day your physical body goes to the grave, but your spirit is reunited with a new immortal body, free of indwelling sin. Meanwhile we live by faith, allowing the Spirit of God in us to renew our minds so we walk in the new life He has given.
That is why so many people call into the program, so they may come to understand truth, and be set free. For Jesus Himself said, “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free”. The callers are growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, and are getting guidance from other believers to confirm for themselves by the scriptures and the Spirit of God in them what truth is.
Chad from New Orleans, LA
Chad: I called about a week ago. I have another question. My wife was talking to a friend, and my wife was saying how once you have salvation, you are always in Christ. Her friend disagreed, and quoted from Revelation 3:15-16. I wanted to get your thoughts on that.
15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm – neither hot nor cold – I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
Bob: It is not the character of God to say eternal security throughout the scriptures and then deny it in the last book in the bible. You are not going to have a different translation in the book of Revelation than you do in all the rest of the books. The bible testifies from one end to the other.
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
Bob: Why would Christ say in John 3:36, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life”, and then deny that in the end in Revelation? The apostle John, the disciple whom Jesus loved, also said this.
1 John 5:12
“Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.”
Bob: In Revelation, the angel is speaking to denominational heads. You can associate a denomination to anyone of those seven churches in Revelation and would match perfectly. There are leaders of these denominations that are neither hot nor cold and God says He will spew them out. There are denominations today I wished he already spewed out. There are denominations that elect bishops who are homosexuals and alcoholics. There are denominations that are flooded with homosexual behavior as part of the priest. Nothing to do with salvation but leadership. Why would God stand aloof, seeing those who once stood firm in truth, to now be misled by new leadership who are leading people into a pit of eternal destruction?
Bob: People who say such things, that you can lose your salvation, think they can earn it. For if you can earn then you can also lose it. But if granted salvation by grace, and God is not going to take it away, then you cannot lose it and you have eternal security.
Bob: Anyone who claims you can lose salvation think they know what salvation is but they do not know what it is. Salvation is being saved from the consequences of sin, which is death, by the gift of God, which is life.
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
Bob: We are not saved by the cross but we are saved by the resurrection. We could not be saved eternally unless the eternal cause of death, which is sin, is taken away. Jesus took away the cause of spiritual death, which is sin, when he shed his blood on the cross. The reason I know I have eternal life is because of the eternal consequence of the cross. He took away the sins of the world never to be seen again in the eyes of God. Not because of anything I have done but because of what he has done when he took sin away. There is nothing that can cause me to experience death is the reason I believe in eternal security. Man is free to come to God to receive this life, which is offered when he rose from the dead, having taken away the cause of death, which is sin.
Chad: I definitely agree. It is so easy for my spirit to agree with this and fall in line. Like I said, that is something that makes sense all along. It reminds me of a broad path I had before. If you just attach Jesus’ name on it, anything is acceptable. It reminds me of when I was of the world. The world says abortion is okay even though I know inside something is wrong with that. The world says homosexuality is okay. You want to accept what the world says but something inside says something is not right. The movement I was in accepted almost anything. A person spoke at church who had outrageous claims. That is when I said, “I am not doing this anymore”. It seems almost anything is accepted, as long as you know a few scriptures, and claim Jesus, and say “I am good to go”. I would not be in good faith to keep following that. I had to do a little research. This definitely is. My spirit agrees with it.
Chad: We are in between churches. I am not sure where to go from here. It is either the salvation message or the other extreme, where I cannot really identify with this doctrine at all. I guess I just keep it in prayer.
Bob: To find a place that teaches truth from one end to the other, unfortunately, is not easy to find. We do have a number of believers over in the New Orleans area that some of them meet in small groups. Some of them have church homes. They have home churches. I would be glad to get their names to you, so you can get in touch with them. So maybe something like that would be acceptable to you.
Chad: That might be a good place to start. I have three children. I am really wanting to have a place for them, and to meet people. People say to get into a church. I do not know about this jumping into a church.
Bob: The thing of it is people have a false conception of what church is. Church is not a building with stained glass and an organ. It is wherever two or more are gathered in My name. There He is in the midst of you. That would be very difficult to say that is not church. It says not to forsake assembling together and that can be meeting in a coffee shop somewhere. Church is people, not an organization. Church is an organism. You can always find like-minded believers, and when you do, then you have a very precious thing, when you find like-minded believers who are able to fellowship with one another, regardless of whether it is in a building with a stained glass window or not.
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.
Bob: Hold on the line and we will get you in contact with some people. God bless you, Chad.
Rob from Jackson, MS
Rob: I was listening to your program. A gentleman was talking to you about things. I am not well versed in the New Testament. I do not want to be argumentative. I just want clarification. You were talking about the law. It seemed a couple of times, Jesus addressed the law. He said something like, “I did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it”. Another time He said that heaven and earth shall pass away but not one tiddle of the law will be destroyed.
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Bob: Until it is fulfilled. He fulfilled the law.
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.
Rob: Where does it say that?
Bob: Yes. Christ fulfilled the law. Of course it does. Law has now been fulfilled in us who do not walk after the flesh but after the Spirit.
3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rob: Did He say that or did Paul say that?
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life – only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
Bob: Jesus said that. Jesus said He fulfilled the law. Paul said He fulfilled the law. Rob, let me see if I can be of help to you. When Jesus walked on the earth, He fulfilled the law. He is the only person who ever could fulfill the law.
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one
Bob: The only one who can walk in perfect love is Christ Jesus.
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Bob: Therefore, He fulfilled the law given to us because we could not fulfill it. The law had to be fulfilled. It had to be upheld that the wages of sin is death. When Jesus went to the cross, He became sin for us.
2 Corinthians 5:21
21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Bob: Him becoming sin had to bring about the death penalty. That was the upholding of the law.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Bob: Jesus entered into our death with us. He was sinless and He took our sins upon Himself. He paid the price for it. So that is what kept me from having to pay the price for it, which I could never pay. So then, He rose from the dead to give spiritual life, to give life to those who are spiritually dead. That is the whole realm of salvation.
Bob: Now prior to the cross, Jesus taught under the law. He was born of a virgin under the law. It is not that He did not like grace. He has just not died yet. A will, according to Hebrews, does not go into effect until the one who made it dies.
16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.
Bob: Just like a will today. A will does not go into effect until you die. A will is a covenant or testament. You got an old will. You have got an old testament and a new testament. You have got an old will and a new will. That is an agreement with God. God says, here is the law and I command you to keep it. We could not do it. So Jesus came and did. Therefore, having fulfilled the law, He was in a position to uphold the law through His death, and usher in a new covenant of grace we stand in today.
Bob: A lot of people, if you do not understand the truth of that, you get confused because Jesus was teaching under the law, proclaiming perfect righteousness in Himself. Not only His teaching, but in Himself. He showed us His perfect righteousness, and in so doing, He showed you and me our unrighteousness. Why is He doing that? He is heading to a cross to die for sinners. If we are so dumb that we do not agree we are sinners, then what would we do with the cross? Then, He had to convince us that there is a consequence to sin called death. If He had not done that, then what would His resurrection mean to me? I could not say that I would need it.
Bob: His whole work was preparatory, teaching us that we cannot, but that He did. He said to be perfect. We cannot do that. So what did He do?
14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
Bob: We cannot, but He did. So, that is the good news of the gospel, that Christ fulfilled the law and the law has been fulfilled in us, who do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Bob: So that is the good news of the gospel.
Rob: Thanks a lot. Bye. Bye.
Bob: Okay, Rob. I hope that helps.
Larry from Long Beach, CA
Larry: I have a very interesting question. I had a debate. In the book of Acts, for instance in chapter 8.
15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit
Larry: Peter and John arrived at a place and prayed for new Christians to receive the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon them, and they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Peter and John laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. I know back in Acts 19, …
Bob: To get to your question, Larry, I know about all those passages of scripture. The reason I told you to get on is because you do not take doctrine from the book of Acts. So what is your question? So is your question, when do you receive the Holy Spirit?
Larry: Right. I had a debate. They are telling me you receive the Holy Spirit after you believe.
Bob: That is impossible. In the book of Romans, it says if you do not have the Holy Spirit, then you do not belong to Him. What are you born again of?
9 And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
Bob: What are you born again of? You are born again of the Spirit.
Bob: So if you are born again of the Spirit, and as it says in Romans 8:9.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
Bob: Then how could you be born again apart from the Spirit? So you are born again at the time the Holy Spirit takes up residence in your life. Otherwise, you are not born again. So I have to ask a question. How can people say you are born again of the Spirit and later on receive the Spirit?
15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Bob: When talking about those events in the book of Acts, when a person says only baptized in the name of Jesus. No one is saved by being baptized in the name of Jesus. You are born again when you put your faith in the fact that Jesus Christ went to a cross and took away the sins of the world. Those people, just merely baptized in the name of Jesus, did not know that at that time. When you put your faith in the fact that He was raised from the dead in order to give life to you, that is when you are born again. That is the gospel that saves.
Bob: Larry, when you read the scriptures and you read what Paul said, that anyone who preaches a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be eternally condemned. Then he defines what the gospel is. It is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.
2 Corinthians 11:3-4
3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures
Bob: It is not the death, burial and resurrection and speaking in tongues. It is not the death, burial and resurrection and baptism. It is not the death, burial and resurrection and of church attendance or tithing records. It is what Jesus did. It has nothing at all to do with what we did. He died alone. He was buried alone. He was raised alone. That is what we put our faith in.
Larry: Okay, Bob. You are right, brother.
Larry: The debate was this. It is like a chicken and an egg, which comes first. When you read this scripture, it says “you believe, then they received”.
Bob: Tell them to read in John where it says that they saw the miracles He did. I guarantee these people who are arguing with you are all into miracles, signs and wonders. It says in John 2, that they saw the miracles He did and believed in His name but Jesus would not entrust His name to them. He would not entrust Himself to them for He knew man and did not need the testimony of man concerning man.
23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.
Bob: You also have in scripture of people going to Jesus and saying to Him, “Do you not see all the miracles I did, and how I cast out demons and how I was involved in all of these spectacular things”, and what did Jesus say? “I do not know you. I do not know you.”
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Bob: So when talking about believing, I believed in Jesus all my life but I was not born again until I was 36. The believing is the starting point. Putting faith in what Jesus did is the finality of salvation.
Larry: For sure the Spirit is who draws you in and then you are born again.
Bob: No. You are born again when you put your faith in the finished work of Christ Jesus. You put your faith in the one who died for you on a cross. Again, not just an historical event. It is not the kind of thing that I put my faith in the fact that Abraham Lincoln died. That information is historical truth but does not do anything for you. Jesus died so I could live. When he died on a cross, he died to the law so that I too could identify with his death, and dying to the law in order to be raised to give me life. People you are talking with, and many other people, do not have full knowledge of what salvation is.
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God.
Bob: Salvation is not getting your sins forgiven. That is a part of it but it is not salvation. It prepares you for salvation. You are saved from the consequence of sin, which is death, by the gift of God, which is life.
Bob: The only life available to us is the resurrected life of Christ Jesus. That is why, until Christ comes to live in you, you are not born again. It is not that you are born again and you have to get the Spirit later. Born again means I got new spiritual life. How are you going to get spiritual life until Jesus lives in you? Salvation is Jesus coming to live in you.
Larry: Believing in born again means something.
Bob: No. I believed long before I was born again. I put my faith in Jesus at the age of 36. I believed in Him most all my life. But I put my faith in Him, when I was born again, when I put my faith in what He did at the cross for me.
Larry: You say you do not take doctrine from the book of Acts. Can you explain what you mean by that?
Bob: They did. So if it was a doctrinal book, then you would have to say that is what you need to do. Larry, anybody who has any knowledge of biblical interpretation. There is not a soul on the face of the earth who knows anything about the bible would ever say it is a doctrinal book. The book of Acts is a historical account of the works of Peter and Paul. It is what happened. This is what happened.
18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
Bob: Did not Peter say perhaps He will forgive you of this. Is that doctrinal? No. That is what Peter said, but it is not doctrine. It is the recording of what he said.
Larry: Where can you find that?
Bob: In the book of Acts. Look up those passages. It is where he is talking with Simon the sorcerer.
Bob: Again, if that is a doctrinal book, then we should say to people, perhaps God will forgive you. Is that what we say? No. God has already forgiven you. He forgave you at the cross. That is what He came to do. Why did Peter say that? I don’t know. It is just a recording of what he said.
Larry: Very good. Thank you. I appreciate it. You have been a great help. Great talking with you guys.
Bob: Same to you. God bless you, my friend.
Ricky from Los Angeles, CA
Ricky: Hi Bob. How is it going?
Bob: Good. Thank you.
Ricky: I have a question concerning angels. I have not read it, but heard it. There were four angels talked about in Revelation. The angels have four faces. I understand how the lion is represented for Matthew, the face of man for Luke, but how does the eagle line up with the book of John?
Bob: Ricky, all of that is speculation. Number one, I do not know anything about an angel with four faces in Revelation. It may be there, but not that I have recollection of.
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
In Revelation 7:11, an angel is standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures but does not say anything about having four faces.
In Ezekiel is where you will read about creatures with four faces, that Ricky must be reading about. From reading Ezekiel, I sure cannot figure this out. I sure do not see it spelled out that each face represents a gospel writer, such as Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.
4 I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north – an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, 5 and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was human, 6 but each of them had four faces and four wings. 7 Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze. 8 Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. All four of them had faces and wings, 9 and the wings of one touched the wings of another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved.
10 Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a human being, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle. 11 Such were their faces. They each had two wings spreading out upward, each wing touching that of the creature on either side; and each had two other wings covering its body. 12 Each one went straight ahead. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, without turning as they went. 13 The appearance of the living creatures was like burning coals of fire or like torches. Fire moved back and forth among the creatures; it was bright, and lightning flashed out of it. 14 The creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning.
Bob: A lot of times we hear things but do not read it in context, so you read things that are not really there. The issue is those things are interpretive speculation as to what they represent. Unless it is spelled out in detail that this is what it represents, it is just speculation. If that is not spelled out in detail, then it is truly speculation. What I have to do with those kinds, Ricky, is this. Those things I do know is all I know for sure.
Bob: In end times, there is a lot of history associated with end times. I know end times are going to take place. I know there was a beginning. I also know there is an end. I am not going to be preoccupied with the beginning or the end. I am going to be preoccupied with what Jesus is preoccupied with, one day at a time. I have to get along with my wife today and not during the end times. If I am going to love a person, I have to love them today, not tomorrow for tomorrow is not here yet.
Bob: So, I think you have to put prophecy in its proper perspective. Yes, it is here. We do not always know its meaning, especially symbolic things. We do not know for sure. We can speculate. Sometimes we might be wrong in speculation, but we do not know for sure. Personally, from my point of view, and I am not saying I am right or wrong. I am going to latch on to what I know is true. Not hope it is true but what I know is true. What I know is true is the gospel we talk about every day. I know that is true and I know that truth sets me free. That is where I am going to camp.
Ricky: Okay. No problem. Thank you.
Bob: You sure are welcome. I appreciate your interest in it. Go back and read it more carefully and see what it says there.
Bob: First place is to ask, “what is that?” I do not know for sure. I can speculate on how Lindsay Graham says or Tim LaHaye says. That is all speculation. They do not know for sure. They may just think they know. I am going to go with what I do know.