Call-In Classic Christianity Radio – Bob George P615 (03-11-21)
Synopsis
Sometimes we get bogged down in our daily lives, being bombarded with legalism or teaching that just weighs us down. The day to day mundane things we do just seems to weigh us down at times. But to know that the time we ourselves get alone with the Lord, letting Him teach us the meaning of the word of God, and see the work God is doing in us. Then, as we simply share truth that has been revealed to us, that truth not only changes our own lives, but it overflows into the lives of others. That makes living so worthwhile.
Listen as Bob George shares with a young seminary student getting bogged down in his studies in theology that seems to distract him from being taught by the Holy Spirit. At times even, incorrect teaching is being told him, and he also feels this push towards legalism. Bob shares truth with him to help him to keep focused on being taught of the Holy Spirit. He reminds him of some basic foundational truths, on what salvation is, and clarification on the meaning of 1 John 1:9, and refers him to the “Spiritual Journey to Discover the Grace of God”.
Bob often shares from this book. It is all scripture. It is what Bob teaches out of in seminars with people across the country. The book is an excellent resource on the deity of Christ, the validity of the word of God, the New Covenant in contrast to the Old Covenant, the finality of the cross, forgiveness of sin, and the issue of life, and salvation. The book explains more thoroughly what salvation is.
Other callers asked practical questions on how to apply scripture, as they were confused in their understanding. Dan asked a question in regards to how to live in a pagan society. He seemed a little confused in regards to civil responsibility and in what God instructs you as a believer. He could not reconcile those two in his mind from his reading of 1 Peter 2. Listen as Bob George addresses that passage, and then the responsibilities of government and civic responsibilities.
In regard to that passage in 1 Peter 2, by building relationships, and sharing the good news of Jesus Christ, hearts are changed, and then people are walking in accordance with who they are as a new creation, and problems are soon resolved on their own. That is what happened in regard to slavery that Paul addressed in Philemon as a slave became born again, and returned to his master, not as a slave but as a brother.
There are national problems that Jesus did not deal with. He did not deal with slavery, for example. At that time, probably over 60% of Jews were in slavery to Roman rule. You never hear him talk against slavery. He did say to slave owners to be kind to slaves and told slaves to be obedient to their owners. By doing so, being kind and submissive, you develop a relationship, and out of that relationship both could potentially be led to faith in Christ and then slavery is no longer an issue. For then they interact with one another in love and slavery no longer is an issue.
As for civic duties, as an individual, the best avenue, at least it was, is the right to vote. Unfortunately, it does not matter who votes when those in power count the votes any way they want to. Go to Absolute Proof for what is currently happening in our country. So there is certainly a time for Americans to stand up to evil in this world and use what avenues God has provided for you. For example, when someone in authority tells a woman to have an abortion, you definitely need to stand up against that.
And in answering the question Andrew had in regard to people who identify themselves as prophets or apostles today, do not pay attention to them. That office ended when the canon was completed. Any prophet today would be proclaiming truth that has already been revealed and is really not what is referred to as a prophet that we read from the Old Testament scriptures. Prophets wrote down new revelations directly from the Holy Spirit of God. If what they said did not come true, then the instruction was in those days for such false prophets to be put to death. There is now nothing more to be written down since all that God revealed to us ended with the apostles, and the apostle John was the last living apostle, through whom we have the book of Revelation. Revelation has a strong warning to those who add to or subtract from the word of God with a judgment of plagues. Apostles had to be eyewitnesses of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Transcript
Bobbie from San Diego, CA
Bobbie: I had a question. I listened to your message about forgiveness. I am going to a bible college in southern California. I am learning a lot of good theological stuff but it does not seem my spiritual walk is getting any better. I am going through a roller coaster of emotions. It seems like legalism to me. Is there a way to identify, the line between legalism and living in grace?
Bob: I heard a testimony from Chuck Swindoll, a respected spiritual leader. Chuck Swindoll said it took him four years to get through seminary and twenty years to get over it. So this is not an unusual experience among young people in seminary. Young men have hearts that are aflame for Christ and then before long are burned out. Why? The reason for that, Bobby, is due to a lack of emphasis on the dependence of the Spirit of God to understand the meaning of the word of God.
1 Corinthians 2:9-10
9 However, as it is written:“What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived” – the things God has prepared for those who love him –
10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
Bob: When you are talking about what God has done for us freely, you are talking about grace. In order to understand the totality of grace, God has to reveal that message to you. It seems bible colleges and seminaries are bent on proving that wrong. Hermeneutics, the study of Hebrew and Greek seems to be saying you don’t need the Spirit of God. It is as if you must do these special techniques in bible study to understand the scriptures. So the emphasis is misplaced away from depending on the Holy Spirit to teach you and more on these hermeneutics and the study of Greek and Hebrew.
Bob: Much of what is taught in seminary are techniques in understanding the bible such as hermeneutics or the study of Greek and Hebrew along with learning details on facts in the bible. The most dynamic learning I received was in home bible studies and the most boring in institutional learning. I never learned anything in institutionalized learning except facts. That is dry and that is dead. That is what happens to all of us.
Bob: Yet the bible is not written for that purpose. The bible is written so someone can get to know the author. This is so unlike any other book, such as in the fields of science, math or biology. The Bible is the only book one studies to understand the author. In other classes, you study to get a grade and move on. We do not study a book to get to know the author. You generally do not study a book written by Einstein to get to know Einstein. No, you study Einstein to know more about the theory of relativity. But to understand grace, you must get to know the author of the scriptures, and God is the author.
John 5:39-40
39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
Bob: In John 5:39-40, Jesus confronted the Pharisees in regards to their diligent study yet reproved them for failing to come to Christ for life. The purpose of the Bible is to get to know Christ. You can survive in that atmosphere of seminary but you have to divorce yourself from it. You have to say to yourself: “I am going to class and learn some facts but as far as understanding what the bible means I am going to let the Holy Spirit teach me.” You can teach people what you have learned about the bible says. But until the Spirit teaches you what it means then you only teach them what you taught yourself but not the Holy Spirit. And even what I have learned from the Holy Spirit is limited. I can only teach what God has revealed so far to me, and I myself am still growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. But until the Holy Spirit reveals that to you, then you have not been taught. We are not there as a teacher to take the place of the Holy Spirit, who is the teacher. We are limited.
Bob: Does that help, Bobbie?
Bobbie: Yes, definitely.
Bobbie: Now the issue of forgiveness is emphasized more than anything else in bible college, as in 1 John 1:9, which is taught in error. You hear them say to be on your face before God every day, confessing your sins every day. I have read what you said before on this and it makes a lot of sense.
Bob: Let us look at Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10. There are a lot of people that God would say to them that they have never repented.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Bob: So what does the phrase “fallen away” mean? A lot of people God would say to them that they have never repented. It would be as if God said: “You have never changed your mind in regards to forgiveness. You cannot return to where you have never been. You can’t come back because you have never been there.”
Bob: In regards to the Jew, he is going back to the day of atonement. When talking to a Catholic, he is going back to the confessional booth. When talking to a Protestant, he is going back to 1 John 1:9 to get forgiveness again. All three of those, are in many cases, are people who have never repented. They have heard about it. They have tasted it. They never repented in the first place. They are either not understanding what Jesus accomplished when he shed his blood on the cross. They never came to trust that the work Jesus came to do for him is finished, requiring nothing of man but to believe in what he did. He never understood the grace of God so was never saved in the first place.
Bob: What does the phrase mean “who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance?” If you fall from something, you have to fall to something. They say they held on to grace but then are defending the law. What are they talking about? They are talking about bringing Christ for more forgiveness. Such a person is quite possibly in a situation where he has never repented.
Colossians 1:20-23
20 It was through what his Son did that God cleared a path for everything to come to him – all things in heaven and on earth – for Christ’s death on the cross has made peace with God for all by his blood. 21 This includes you who were once so far away from God. You were his enemies and hated him and were separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions, yet now he has brought you back as his friends. 22 He has done this through the death on the cross of his own human body, and now as a result Christ has brought you into the very presence of God, and you are standing there before him with nothing left against you – nothing left that he could even chide you for; 23 the only condition is that you fully believe the Truth, standing in it steadfast and firm, strong in the Lord, convinced of the Good News that Jesus died for you, and never shifting from trusting him to save you. This is the wonderful news that came to each of you and is now spreading all over the world. And I, Paul, have the joy of telling it to others.
Bob: Essentially, the Jews were shifting from trusting Jesus to save them. Or rather, they never repented. They never changed their minds in regards to the law to even come to Christ to save them. Christ has already made provision for the forgiveness of sin by his death on the cross. He made peace with God for all by his blood. Sins of the world have already been forgiven. Come to Christ and believe what he has already provided for you. So when you ask God to forgive you of sins, you are essentially putting Christ back on the cross again, exposing him to public disgrace. He died once to never die again. Why put him on the cross again in your mind? That is an insult to the eternal payment of sin by his death. That is not acting in faith, and is not saving faith.
Hebrews 10:26-29
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Bob: You can’t sin against the knowledge of truth unless you have heard the knowledge of the truth. Many people have never heard about the finality of the cross. They keep short accounts with God, going back to the confessional booth or day of atonement. When you do hear the message, then the scripture refers to those who keep sinning against the knowledge of the truth. It is finished, paid in full, sins and lawless acts are remembered no more, and where these have been forgiven there is no longer a sacrifice for sin.
Hebrews 10:15-18
15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
Bob: If you walk by faith, then thank him for the forgiveness you have. The only things scriptures instruct is to confess your sins to one another. And that is what we are doing is sinning against one another. That is who we are basically sinning against is one another. God is not looking for us to be groveling, getting on your face, and doing what Martin Luther did, trying to beat his flesh into obedience. Rejoice and quit making a mockery of the blood of the covenant. You have been sanctified.
Bob: Live in hilarity over the fact God took away your sins in the eyes of God, never to be remembered again. That is the motivation for confessing sins to another. If you insulted someone, go to him. You are essentially saying: “I can thank God for what He did but it hasn’t been taken away from you yet.” That is the the reason for confessing sins to one another. Traditions of men is to beat yourself to death. How are we ever to keep slate clean? It is impossible for man. That is why we have need of the grace of God, who never counts our sins against us.
Bobbie: Calvary Chapel Bible College is where I am going to. This is where this teaching is coming from.
Bob: We had a wonderful relationship with Calvary Chapel and have been open to what we have been teaching. If people have problems with what is being taught, then let us come together and reason together. This idea of the totality of forgiveness is in the bible and is not something that people made up. It is in the bible. Agreeing with God concerning your sins is something we do all the time. But you are not confessing to get your sins forgiven. That is the difference between the two. When we sin, it is right to ask: “Lord, what do you want me to do about it.” God would respond something like: “Go back to that person and straighten it out.” We all need to ask ourselves: “Is what I am teaching in accordance with truth?”
Bob: I will send you the “Spiritual Journey to Discover the Grace of God”. It is all scripture. It is what I teach out of in seminars with people across the country. The book is an excellent resource on the deity of Christ, the validity of the word of God, the New Covenant in contrast to the Old Covenant, the finality of the cross, forgiveness of sin, and the issue of life, and salvation. The book explains more thoroughly what salvation is. Salvation is being saved from the consequences of sin, which is death, by the gift of God, which is the resurrected life of Christ Jesus. Many people do not understand salvation that way and stop at the cross. Most incorrectly say you are saved when Jesus died for your sins. No, you are not.
Romans 5:10
10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
Bob: Even before I was ever saved, I was reconciled! How much more, having been reconciled, we are saved through his life.
1 Corinthians 15:13-19
13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
Bob: Paul said that without resurrection we are to be pitied of all men and are still dead in our sins. Paul said this knowing full well that a cross had occurred where Jesus took away sins, understanding that what was provided then is only received in his resurrection. You don’t come to Christ to get forgiven. You come to Christ to get life. And in that life you have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. That is not taught. If the premise is off, then everything is off. So that is what causes confusion in biblical teaching.
Bobbie: Thank you for your time.
Bob: You are welcome, Bobbie. You call back any time. We would love to hear from you.
Ephesians 1:7
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace
Dan from Dallas, TX
Dan: I have a question in regards to a passage in 1 Peter 2:11-18. It described that we are to be keeping the attitude of being a bondservant and keeping in line what is taught by Christianity. At the same time I am seeing other chrisitans, like the Liberty Legal Counsel and other organizations that say we should stand up for our Christian rights. Are we called to stand up for our Chrisitan rights? Or, are we called to stand back and let God take care of whatever needs to happen?
1 Peter 2:11-18
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul. 12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.
18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
Bob: Dan, I think you are talking about two different things altogether. You are talking about civil liberties and what God is saying to us. As far as an individual is concerned, as in 1 Peter, we should rid ourselves of those things it says in scriptures there. This is what God instructs us.
1 Peter 2:1-3
1 Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. 2 Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
Bob: These are attitudes that we have toward one another as born again believers toward one another and toward the world.
Bob: On the other hand, there are national problems that Jesus did not deal with. He did not deal with slavery, for example. At that time, probably over 60% of Jews were in slavery to Roman rule. You never hear him talk against slavery. He did say to slave owners to be kind to slaves and told slaves to be obedient to their owners. By doing so, being kind and submissive, you develop a relationship, and out of that relationship both could potentially be led to faith in Christ and then slavery is no longer an issue. For then they interact with one another in love and slavery no longer is an issue. A person who is in Christ Jesus will never own a slave after a while as God deals with him. That is how God deals with us for peace in our hearts.
Bob: Let us just love one another is often the thought of the day. But look at it in perspective of an evil world that cannot and will not respond to love. That is like saying jump in the cage with a lion and be nice to the hungry lion. He will eat you no matter what you do. The amount of niceness will not stop the hungry lion. There are people who are evil.
Bob: There are Stalins and Hitlers in the world today and are murderers with the intent to take over the world. From a government standpoint, they will have to defend it with people. Some will not get involved in war as conscience objectors. And nothing necessarily wrong with that. There are those who serve as medics, with religious convictions, and the government makes provision for that. Nation will have to protect. There are people today who want to destroy our nation. Meanwhile, we are to live in this world getting along with our neighbors and going to live with rules Jesus is saying here.
Dan: That is very interesting. In line with that, we should. Where do I need to go as a Christian in my civil direction? Do I need to partake in activism?
Bob: Vote. If I have a problem with someone, then vote. The ability to vote for people we agree with is the best avenue we have in our government. If you do not like him, vote him out of office. No good to scream and yell and call certain politicians idiots. That really solves nothing. We do have the responsibility to vote for what we know is best. Use the ability God has given you. God has given you the ability to vote.
Bob: Dan, if the government says you cannot worship Jesus, then that is another matter. If government says to a wwoman that you must have an abortion then that is the time to stand up. We cannot stop speaking about what we have seen and heard nor can we disobey God, a higher authority over government in these matters. As long as the government is not saying that you must do this, then use the right we have to vote. Try to get people who are for things that you do not agree with out of office.
Dan: That wraps it up. Thank you very much.
Andrew
Andrew: What do you say to those who call others prophets and apostles today? And what do think about someone calling ladies of the church as first ladies?
Bob: Nonsensical. You cannot be an apostle unless you had been with the physical Jesus. The Bible had to be written by an apostle. Prophets were used to communicate verbally what had not yet been written in the scriptures that we hold in our hands today. We call each other brothers and sisters, and that is okay, if indeed they are born again believers and can rightly be called that since they are in the body of Christ.
Andrew: How do we relate to people like that?
Bob: Intentional or not, I do not know, but what they are doing is deceiving people. Do not be involved with people like that, for they are deceivers.
Andrew: First family is like putting them above the rest of the church.
Bob: First family of what? The church, who is starting the fellowship there, or what? I am a founder of People to People, so do I call myself ’the first family of People to People”. Unless I have gone nuts. I recommend going to another place to fellowship.
Ezekiel 13:8-9
8 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Because of your false words and lying visions, I am against you, declares the Sovereign Lord. 9 My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign Lord.
Deuteronomy 13:5
5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
Revelation 22:18
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.
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