Call-In Classic Christianity Radio – Bob George P453 (7-05-19)
Bob received a call by Patsy, who wanted guidance or reassurance in regards to actions she had taken with a granddaughter who had chosen to live a lesbian lifestyle. Bob reassured her that what Patsy did was in accordance with truth and love for her granddaughter. You do not have to be a believer to know that the actions of your granddaughter is sin. Bob explains Romans 12 in regards to this kind of perverse mind and also the actions taken by the apostle Paul in regards to a similar sexual perversion that occurred in the midst of the believers in 1 Corinthians. So Patsy did what was right to send her granddaughter back to her parents because of her persistent rebellion. Bob and Patsy were in agreement in the truth on this.
“You set a standard and tell her the truth in regards to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ loves you and he was raised to offer you eternal life. He did not create you a depraved pervert. That came from your own choice. But I am not going to have that behavior flaunted in our own home. When you flaunt that behavior in other people then I have to take a stand on that.”
Bob also shared how such depravity starts in taking hold of a young lady. It comes by another woman who persists in recruiting her into such thinking and usually results after a break up over former boyfriends, where she is later deceived into thinking that no one understands her but another woman. They have committed to pray for her to come to her senses. You can sense in Patsy’s voice, the love and concern she has for her granddaughter.
Bob received a call from John, who was growing in his knowledge of the grace of and the forgiveness of God, but was confused about a certain passage in the gospel of Matthew where the disciples asked Jesus how to pray. When Jesus responded, “If you do not forgive others, then neither will I forgive you.” To properly understand this passage, you must understand the difference between the Old Covenant, the one Jesus lived under and those whom he was speaking to, and the New Covenant to come, the covenant we live under today. The Lord’s prayer is really not a prayer, but the Lord is teaching you how to pray under an Old Covenant. Under the Old Covenant, forgiveness was conditional. How did you get forgiven under the Old Covenant? You went to the day of atonement and sacrificed a bull and a goat. In the New Covenant, there is no more sacrifice for sins, Jesus being the propitiation, or complete satisfaction of God’s wrath against sin. The sins of the entire world – past, present and future – have been paid in full by Christ’s shed blood on a cross.
Betty, the last caller, asked Bob to explain in more detail what is the process to be born again. She had been reading John 3 and was not understanding what “flesh to flesh” and “spirit to spirit” means. After explaining in more detail, Bob summarized the gospel message and then led Betty into accepting by faith the truth she just heard in order to become a child of God. Just as you must be born physically, at a certain moment in time, you also have to be born spiritually, a certain moment in time, and not by a process, but by simple belief in the truth Jesus spoke, which we can read in His word, but the Spirit must reveal the meaning to us.
God dealt with the sin issue for mankind once and for all. It is like a blanket over the entire sins of the world. He certainly did not take them all away down here. He took them away from the eyes of God. The way he did that was through the shed blood of his son, which is of such value, that he took away the entire sins of the world. When that occurred, something called propitiation took place. God looked at the sacrifice and said, “I am satisfied”. Propitiation completely satisfied the wrath of God against sin. Then you have to recognize that the consequences to sin is spiritual death. The only solution to spiritual death is spiritual life. The only life available to us is the resurrected life of Jesus. That is why Paul said that without the resurrection we are to be pitied of all men and are still dead in our sins. So the resurrection is what gives life to the dead. You and I were born alive physically but dead spiritually.
To be born again, you recognize what God says about our condition, that “I am a sinner” and “I am dead”, then you need to look to the provision of God. What did God do to the fact that “I am a sinner”? He took away my sins at the cross never to see them again in the eyes of God. What did he do to correct the problem of my spiritual death? He came to offer you life. Then, you by faith, accept that life God has offered you. Bob then led her into a simple prayer, and by her faith, not her prayer, she became a child of God.
Patsy and her husband sent their granddaughter overseas back to their parents because their granddaughter chose to live a lesbian lifestyle. They gave her the ultimatum to not live in that lifestyle. She went home to her mother and stepfather and they too are having a difficult time to know what to do with her.
Bob answered by first sharing what Patsy already knew but also for the benefit of the radio listeners. Homosexuality is a choice and not something a person is born with. By her choice, she is making life difficult for everyone. According to scripture, woe to those people who call what is good evil and what is evil good.
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
We have to acknowledge what God calls sin as sin. You do not have to be a Christian to know that homosexuality is a sin. I did not change my mind about stealing when I became a Christian. I knew stealing, lying, fornication, and adultery are sins as a lost person. I knew those things as sin long before I became a Christian. This is just good common sense. God puts it on the heart, into the conscience of men. If there is no such thing as wrong, how would you know what is right? Homosexual behavior is called sin according to God’s word. God’s word explains how such a sin comes about and how it manifests itself into more and more depravity.
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
God gave them over in their sinful desires in their hearts. This is a by-product, the exchanging truth for a lie and worshiping a created being, another woman, rather than the one who created us. A perverse person says in her heart: “God, “I do not care how you created me. I am a woman inside”. All such talk is nonsense. If you have the equipment for a woman, you are a woman. Quit exchanging the truth for a lie. So they received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. AIDS is a due penalty for such perversion, as is other sexually transmitted diseases. So not thinking it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, God gave them over to a depraved mind.
Homosexuality is a form of insanity. People may not like to hear that but that doesn’t matter, because it is the truth. Do you love somebody enough to tell them the truth? There is a point of insanity in that. Insanity is doing things you know is destroying you. You have been turned over to a depraved mind, adding every kind of wickedness, greed and depravity with your perversion. And we see that today, where those in perversion also approve of others who practice such perversion.
So the real question Patsy is asking: “What do you do with such a granddaughter?”
You set a standard and tell her the truth in regards to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ loves you and he was raised to offer you eternal life. He did not create you a depraved pervert. That came from your own choice. But I am not going to have that behavior flaunted in our own home. When you flaunt that behavior in other people then I have to take a stand on that.
1 Corinthians provides an example of how the Apostle Paul addressed sexual sin of a man in the assembly of the Corinthian believers, a sin that does not even occur among the heathen, that a man should have his father’s wife! The believers followed the instruction of the Apostle Paul and he was dismissed from their assembly and turned over to Satan so his soul may be saved. Was that harsh? No. The instruction obeyed was to save the body of Christ. As Paul expressed it: “A little leaven leavens the whole loaf.” We love you but we hate that you have given your mind over to perversion. You do not have a mind to listen to God. If you did then you would not say okay to your perverse behavior for you have not chosen to retain the knowledge of God.
In 2 Corinthians, one reads how the same man in 1 Corinthians came to godly sorrow over his sin and went out of his way to clear himself of the matter. Paul later instructed the believers in Corinth to reaffirm their love for him so he is not overcome by grief lest he should never recover.
Do not say this: “We are Christians so we are not going to tolerate that behavior”. Such a statement plays into the defensive response that Christians are intolerant people. Whether you are Christians or not is irrelevant to the problem. As a non-Christian, you know such sexual behavior is a sin. This is wrong. I am not going to have you flaunt this. What you do in private is between you and God. You are not to flaunt this in our family.
She is in rebellion and anger but she was recruited into this behavior. There are really evil people out there, preying on vulnerable people. Recruited with a friendship and this person knows what she is doing. All of this is part of an agenda. They tenaciously keep at it until the person latches on. When approached by people, you need to ask: “Why is this person so interested in me?” The typical scenario is this. She has gone through two boyfriends, resulting in a breakup. Then this girl shows up, while she is emotionally vulnerable, trying to sort out things towards boys and herself. This other girl then strikes up a relationship, and feeds lies to you until you respond: “She understands me” and “men don’t”. That is the hook into these kinds of perversion to the point they start believing a lie and reject basic truth or common sense. Men do not understand this. This other woman had an agenda and persisted. That is so evil!
John from San Diego, California
John thanked Bob for his ministry and says he has now been able to teach about not having to go back to forgiveness over and over again. The one issue he has not been able to recognize is a passage in Matthew when the disciples say to Jesus, “Teach us how to pray.” and he says, “if you do not forgive others neither will I forgive you”. Can you explain the meaning of that?
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.
How can you say “if you do not forgive a brother on earth your Father in heaven will not forgive you” out of one side of your mouth and then out of the other side of your mouth say, “God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not counting their sins against them”. Those are two opposite things, contradictory, aren’t they? But the bible cannot contradict itself, so they both must be true. How can both be true? One was Old Covenant and one was New Covenant.
The gospels are the recording of Jesus’ life. The people Jesus was talking to were not under the New Covenant yet. Christ taught under the old Covenant and buried us under that covenant. That is what prepared us for the New Covenant of grace. Under the New Covenant, in Hebrews, Jesus said, “your sins and lawless acts I will remember no more” and “where these have been forgiven there is no more sacrifice for sins”.
Hebrews 10:17-18 (TLB)
17 And then he adds, “I will never again remember their sins and lawless deeds.” 18 Now, when sins have once been forever forgiven and forgotten, there is no need to offer more sacrifices to get rid of them.
For the Jew under a New Covenant, Jesus says to put aside the day of atonement. Today, say to Catholics, “you should never have gotten a confession booth, but now that you have one, put it away, if you understand this truth”. To the evangelical that has to keep going back to ask for forgiveness, say, “stop and quit doing what Christ has completed. It is finished.” The Lord’s prayer is really not a prayer, but the Lord is teaching you how to pray under an Old Covenant. Under the Old Covenant, forgiveness was conditional. How did you get forgiven under the Old Covenant? You went to the day of atonement and sacrificed a bull and a goat. In the New Covenant, there is no more sacrifice for sins, Jesus being the propitiation, or complete satisfaction of God’s wrath against sin. The sins of the entire world – past, present and future – have been paid in full by Christ’s shed blood on a cross.
John said that he ministers to inmates in the prison system. John said, “They are the ones that bring this up about forgiveness. Forgiveness is a huge issue for them. You cannot say that if you have unforgiveness in your heart against a brother, do you still have to reconcile that somehow?”
No, there is nothing to reconcile. If you have to reconcile then you are still under the law. Today, under the New Covenant, it says “forgive one another as Christ Jesus forgave you”. Under the Old Covenant, if you do not forgive your brother who sins against you, your Father in heaven will not forgive you”. So you see the difference in the two covenants. If God forgave you, then why should I not forgive you? There is your motivation.
John replied, “If I sin and I think God is mad at me, and maybe he will forgive me, and then that keeps me from approaching God in confidence.” That is correct, and God freed us from that so we can boldly approach the throne of grace.
Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
Betty from Glendale, California
She asks for more detail on the process of being born again.
What is the process of being born physically the first time, but we do not need to discuss that. But we also have to be born again spiritually. We have to be born physically first, but there is also a second birth, as Jesus said, a spiritual birth. You come by faith in the two things Jesus had to do for us we could not do for ourselves. We have to understand we are sinners.
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Those sins had to be forgiven. When Christ came he took them away from the sight of God. God dealt with the sin issue for mankind once and for all. It is like a blanket over the entire sins of the world. He certainly did not take them all away down here. He took them away from the eyes of God. The way he did that was through the shed blood of his son, which is of such value, that he took away the entire sins of the world. When that occurred, something called propitiation took place. God looked at the sacrifice and said, “I am satisfied”. Propitiation completely satisfied the wrath of God against sin. Then you have to recognize that the consequences to sin is spiritual death. The only solution to spiritual death is spiritual life. The only life available to us is the resurrected life of Jesus. That is why Paul said that without the resurrection we are to be pitied of all men and are still dead in our sins. So the resurrection is what gives life to the dead. You and I were born alive physically but dead spiritually.
I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.
So we recognize what God says about our condition, that I am a sinner and I am dead, then I need to look to the provision of God. What did God do to the fact that I am a sinner? He took away my sins at the cross never to see them again. What did he do to correct the problem of my spiritual death? He came to offer you life.
So when you and I come to recognize our condition and his provision through His Son, in Christ Jesus, and accept that by faith, we are born again of the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God comes to give life to our spirit, to restore in us what was lost in Adam, that being the Spirit of God in us. We are now complete the very first time. Without Jesus living in us, we are like a light bulb without electricity, or like a car without gasoline, or like an oil lamp without oil. We are there but cannot function as God intended us to function. But once we accept that by faith, we are born again by the Spirit of God and he begins a brand new relationship with you and Jesus.
Betty asked, “How can we be sure Christ is living in us?” It starts in a point in time in history. It does not occur in a process. Just as you are born physically at a certain moment, so too you must be born spiritually. If you are not sure of that Betty, you can be absolutely sure of that today. I can tell your heart is open. If you want to settle that issue today, like driving a stake in the ground so to speak, so you never have to question that again, I would love to pray with you and for you. To be born again, to have the Spirit living in you, then you merely accept by faith, thanking Him for what he has done for you and accepting that life He has to offer you.
Betty, what you are doing is this. Prayer does not save you. Your faith is what saves you. Prayer is an expression of your faith. Your willingness to do this is already a sign that you already exercise faith. What you are doing now is expressing to God the truth of that faith.
Betty agreed to pray with Bob, expressing this faith to God, repeating after Bob.
“Lord, Jesus I need you. I thank you that you took away my sins at the cross, never to see them again. Having done this you were raised from the dead so that the life that raised me from the dead can raise me into the newness of life. I now ask you to come into my heart and be my Lord and Savior and my very best friend. In Jesus name.”
The bible says that to as many that receive him he gave the right to become children of God.
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God
You just received him. So what have you become? A child of God. I too am a child of God. So what does that make us. Brothers and sisters.
Bob offered Betty a study guide, as he did for anyone who accepted Christ on the phone, or prayed along as someone else did, like Betty just did. Would you like to me to send that to you? It will point out all the scriptures that solidify what you just did. Also open up your bible and mark in your bible and write down the date, Jan 31, 2005, as the day you solidified your relationship with Christ. Therefore any time Satan lies to you, or casts doubt of your salvation, you point to this truth and tell him he is a liar and to go away for you are not listening to him.
Bob is so thrilled and Betty acknowledges his excitement with her.
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
Betty responded to the scriptures Bob shared, “that said it. That right there.” Bob then said, “Call at any time and do not hesitate to call”. Betty then said she also called because she was confused about a certain passage in John 3, where she had not understood what flesh to flesh and spirit to spirit meant.
5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
You and I are born by water and the spirit. What that means is this. We are born naturally and we are born spiritually. That is what that passage is about.