Call-ins Radio Broadcast Thursday 08/20/2020

Call-In Classic Christianity Radio – Bob George P563 (08-20-20)

Synopsis

Every generation has seen an increase in wickedness. We do not have to look too far back in history, in Nazi Germany, to get a glimpse of how evil things can get. And, we see things today that pale in comparison, but are just horrific as well. Emotionally, we are not built for that. If we allow our minds to dwell there, we can no longer hold up any more than Peter could when his eyes were on the winds and the waves instead of on Jesus. Jesus even told us that as time draws near to the end that the love of most will grow cold because of all the evil that will be seen. But He also told us that this gospel will go out into all the world, and then the end will come. God’s word will not be silenced. Even in judgment, God’s heart is held out, showing such long-suffering and patience, not willing anyone should perish. Even in the tribulation period, spoken of in Revelation, He sends angels to warn from heaven, to not take the mark of the beast.

Without the knowledge of God, what do people turn to for righteousness, but religion and obedience to the law. We were not meant to live by the letter of the law. The law was not designed for that. The law was designed to show us how weak and wretched we are, that we might seek a Savior in Christ Jesus. The law is like a mirror to show us that there is dirt on our face, but it has no power to remove the dirt. The power to remove the dirt of sin is Christ and new life is in Him. That is why Christ came, to fill us with His love, so He can produce that in us and through us. We were designed to be in a loving relationship with our creator.

We cannot produce this love that God has for mankind. Even in the simpler things, in loving someone you are supposed to love, like a spouse. We cannot provide our spouse unconditional love and acceptance. That is something only God can provide. And if we try to get that from a spouse, we suck the energy right out of our spouse. That is why the apostle Paul, in giving instruction in regard to marital relationships, presumed that both husband and wife were walking in the Spirit, being controlled by the Spirit, for only then can the husband love his wife as Christ loved the church and the wife be submissive to a husband who loves her with the love of Christ.

As we see in our day, the increase in false teaching, of people who say that it is okay for homosexuals to lead worship or be in positions of authority in a church, we have to realize that these things have been happening before. We have the warning and judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah, where the whole city was destroyed by raining sulfur. But we also see the long-suffering and patience of God, as observed in the apostle Paul’s day. This kind of perverse homosexual behavior was happening then. We see a clearer picture of the grace and mercy of God. Paul preached the good news to people and there were some who were homosexuals but they were washed, they were sanctified, they were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Listen, it is not that homosexuality is singled out, as if God grades on some kind of severity, based on one sin opposed to another. In that same list of sins, where Paul listed homosexuals, he also listed thieves, the greedy, the drunkards, the slanderers and the swindlers. The way God views it is this. The wages of sin is death, and if you are guilty of breaking just one point of the law, you are guilty of breaking all of the law. God sees sin as anything that does not come from faith. A person without the Spirit of God does not have faith. He does not know God and God wants to make Himself known to him, to lavish His grace on him.

Jesus is full of grace and truth, and truth is what sets you free, and in His grace is how you, who are a child of God, born again, are to live in the newness of life. With an understanding of His grace, you can go boldly to the throne of grace in time of need. If you had an argument with your spouse, I would say that is a good enough reason to boldly go to the throne of grace. Truth is what renews your mind, and you have the mind of Christ, for He is living in you. Grace is Christ in you, enabling you to live in the new life you want to live. You live in the newness of life as you trust Him. As a born again believer, you are allowing Him to live His life in you and through you.

The truth is we were all dead in our trespasses and sin, and death is a worse problem than sin. So God sent Jesus to take away forever the cause of our death, which is sin, in order that He may offer eternal life to all men as a gift to be received by faith. He came to show His righteousness, His love, His patience, His kindness, His mercy, so that in so doing, we might see our own unrighteousness in the light of His, and so recognize our condition of death, that we ask for the life that is in Him, which He longs to give to us.

So do not believe the lie that lesbian or homosexuality is an alternative lifestyle, that they are just born that way. To help somebody, you need to tell them the truth, of what God says it is. God calls it perversion. You never help somebody by telling them a lie or repeating a lie to them from what you have heard from the world. The truth is what sets men free to enter into what God wants to give them, which is new life in Him.

Share with someone the nature of God, who He is, and how you came to know this God, and ask if they have ever come to know Christ that way. Then, if they are open, regardless of their answer, you can ask them what God has already provided for them. Ask them if they are interested in what God has to say. He left us scriptures so we can know more about Him, and consequently more about ourselves also, in contrast to Him. Share with them that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. You can introduce them to the truth about sin that caused your death, how He provided a way out from that condition of death through the offer of new life in Christ Jesus, if they are open to that.

Transcript

Anne from Houston, TX

Anne: This seems to be going on with myself and people that I know in several different states. Is this part of the end times too or what? We see what is happening in Israel. We all hope the Lord will return. We want to be about His business. I have never seen such a level of betrayal as I have in the last year in relationships, even in my own personal relationships with friends. I do not know if it is a move of Satanic attacks or what. I am talking to couples in other states and they are saying the same thing. For a long time, people they have trusted, and they have lied on them and blurted out situations that wasn’t true. Betrayed trust and confidence. I know we always had this. I do not believe it is a psychological thing. I believe like you do that. This is mind boggling. Have you seen any of that in your circles?

2 Timothy 3:12-14
12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,

Matthew 24:9-14
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Bob: Not particularly, Anne, any more than what normal is. I think that, ultimately, you are going to see that the terrific amount of input that goes into people’s mind today as a result of not only radio but television especially, and now the internet. All of this knowledge is out there and available, and people are absorbing all of this so-called knowledge. God did not make us to be able to absorb all of that. I do not believe God made you or me, emotionally, to be able to handle people being beheaded in certain parts of the world and blown up in other parts of the world and girls being raped in our part of the world and people having accidents. Seeing all of that, not just hearing about it, I do not think we are equipped for that.

Anne: I got rid of television a long time ago because I chose to do better things with my time. But I am sure that is an effect.

Bob: Ultimately, that takes it’s toll. Things are accumulative. After a while it gets worse and worse. Because of that you are going to see more turmoil. Look at what you see today with the youth. That is not all youth, but what you see, there is little appreciation for manners. There is very little appreciation for elders. There is very little appreciation for knowledge from other people. It is just live and let live. We lived under the day of romance. Today you would have to look in the dictionary to see what that means. Now it is just raw sex. The music you hear among youth would bother my mind. You hear a young person drive up beside you in a car, and this thing is vibrating your car. Where did you ever run into that in the past. There is so much going on, that it becomes terrifically irritating to the human spirit. I think you have people that are more angry today than they have ever been, and more irritated. All of that contributes to some of the things you are talking about. That is why we need the Lord and to be diligent to try to get people to see their need for Christ.

Anne: Well, these are people who profess to know Christ for years.

Bob: That does not mean anything. We both know that.

Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Anne: That is true too. Even up into their 40s they have been brought up under false psychology. The ideas of that. People in their 40s and 50s, they are not only allowing the disrespect from youth, where a promise is not a promise any more. The only importance is you further me in what I am doing. I have never seen so many people betraying each other like that. I know it always existed. But this last year, it seems everyone I know, even though in different states, they have had an explosion against them. Those who are letting Christ living through them.

Bob: Well, Anne. I just get to the point of being oblivious to that stuff. If you knew all the stuff I went through in my Christian life, you would blow your head off.

Anne: I am glad you said that so you realize you are not the only one.

Bob: When you see what is going on in leadership, radio ownership, in what they are doing, what they are advertising, the programs they are putting on. If you knew the lack of interest in truth, it is almost non-existent. People have no appreciation for truth, period.

Anne: That is exactly one of the things I mean when I say they will even lie against a person who is truly filled with truth, walking with the Lord. The truth is not important to these people. It is just whatever they need to say against a person at the time.

Bob: It sounds like a political campaign to me. That is life and you have to get oblivious to it. If I were to be concentrating on it, I would ruin my nature today. I forget about those things, and so I go on talking about what I do know is true, and that is Jesus. He is the only person who will calm our hearts.

Anne: I was wondering if it was intensifying in other places. I do agree with that solution.

Bob: I would have never in a million years would ever have thought what I see in ministry today. When you are in full time work as we are and have been in it as long as we have, I have seen almost everything there is under the sun. I would not even dare write a book about it. It would be so bad as to what goes on in the name of Christ.

(When you read the epistles of Paul, and what trouble he went through in various churches, you come to realize there is nothing new under the sun.)

2 Timothy 4:9-10
9 Do your best to come to me quickly, 10 for Demas, because he loved this world, has deserted me and has gone to Thessalonica.

2 Timothy 4:14-15
14 Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm. The Lord will repay him for what he has done. 15 You too should be on your guard against him, because he strongly opposed our message.

Galatians 4:15-17
15 Where, then, is your blessing of me now? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me. 16 Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

17 Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may have zeal for them.

Acts 15:36-41
36 Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” 37 Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, 38 but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. 39 They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, 40 but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. 41 He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

2 Timothy 4:16-18
16 At my first defense, no one came to my support, but everyone deserted me. May it not be held against them. 17 But the Lord stood at my side and gave me strength, so that through me the message might be fully proclaimed and all the Gentiles might hear it. And I was delivered from the lion’s mouth. 18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Anne: I have known the Lord for quite a few years. Only when I was religious and lost did I really fit in. After that, the true interest in the real God of the bible is very alone. Thank you so much.

Bob: Just keep on keeping on.

Anne: Well, He is going to, in me.

Bob: That is for sure. Good to talk to you, Anne.

Arlene from Troy, MI

Arlene: Thanks for taking my call.

Bob: You are welcome, Arlene.

Arlene: I reconnected with a childhood friend. After getting caught up with family members, I heard about one of her family members who is gay and living with a partner. The family is fine with it because this is her life and her choice. Some people believe that people are pre-genetically dispositioned that way. I do not know what to do with this. What is my responsibility? Do I bring this up at some point? Do I pray about this? What is my responsibility in regard to his kind of thing.

Bob: Arlene, think about it for a moment. If a person is born again of the Spirit of God, and if they have the Spirit of truth living in them. Are we together so far?

Arlene: Yes.

John 1:14
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Bob: Christ Jesus lives in you. Christ is full of grace and truth. Grace and truth lives in you. How are you going to say homosexuality is just an alternative lifestyle or you are born that way when the bible says it is perversion and a sin?

(Under the law, this is what was stated.)

Leviticus 20:13
13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

(But in God’s long-suffering and patience, this is what He says some of you were. But you were rescued. That is the heart of God for you.)

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

The issue is you cannot say it is born that way or an alternative lifestyle unless you are saying the bible is not true. I do not know how a born again believer can say the bible is not true. So there is a problem bigger than homosexuality here or the parents of a homosexual, and that is whether they are born again. If they were, they would not be saying those dumb statements. That is where I would deal.

Bob: If this old friend of yours does not know the Lord, and obviously it seems as if they don’t or they wouldn’t say those statements. That is where I would be dealing with them. It could be that even though you had not seen each other in a long time, and a lot has happened in between, I do not know when you came to Christ. A lot has happened and the friendship may not continue. But I would broach that subject in privacy with them in how you can know Christ.

John 1:12-13
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God – 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Bob: Ask them a question. If you have a testimony, I would explain to them when you came to Christ. “Have you ever come to Christ Jesus that way?” If they are open, they will say “No, I have not.” Or, they would say, “Yes, we have and this is what happened.” Then you can say “if Jesus Christ is truth, which is he is, why don’t we go to Him to find out what He has to say about these things? Quite frankly, He says homosexuality is perversion and sin. So how can we call it a disease or born that way? There is a sense we are all born in sin (Romans 6:23). But He calls that particular behavior as to what it is. How can you call it something else, saying you are born again, and a follower of Christ? A follower of Christ means you are following the teaching of Christ. It does not seem to me you are doing that. ”

Anne: Okay, so at some point I need to broach the subject, present it, then let the friendship fall on or go on as is?

Bob: If you can talk to them, Arlene, talk to them about the Lord and come to Christ. I would venture to say they probably do not know the Lord. If you can lead them to the Lord and get them in bible study, the Spirit will speak to them. You never have to say anything except teach them the word of God.

Bob: Unfortunately, today we got people in pulpits that have evidently lost their minds if they ever had one, claiming to be followers of Christ, because they are a preacher. Like in the Presbyterian denomination, where they are naming bishops as homosexuals. First of all, I know they are not saved or they would not be rebelling against truth that way. So you have a lot of that going on. So you do not know where people are. If you are born again, you need to find out where they are, if they are friends of yours. I would not deal with this issue right now. “Do you know the Lord?” “This is how you know Him. And if you do, let us get in bible study and grow together.”

Anne: We live in different cities. But I will follow that advice. Go slowly but eventually get around to it?

Bob: Sure. There are books you can give people. Send them Classic Christianity. It does not deal with the homosexuality issue but it deals with the issue of what the Christian life is, enough that a person can identify whether they are in Christ or not.

Anne: Who is that book by?

Bob: Me, which is why I recommend it. We can put you on hold so you have a means to pick that up. “Here is a radio ministry I listen to, and here is a book where the host of the radio ministry has written. I want to give it to you so you can think about it. ” That is a way you can start.

Del-Marie from Englewood, CO

Del-Marie: A lot of the churches that I have gone to, teach a lot about the submission of women to their husbands. I agree to a point on some things, unless there is some abuse or things like that. Why does it seem that in the pulpit, it comes down as men are under grace but women are under the law of man?

Ephesians 5:23-25
23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

Bob: I do not know exactly why that is. The issue is, that first of all, you have to start with an assumption. The assumption that Paul was writing there, are two people who are walking in the Spirit. In other words, being controlled by the love of God. That is the first admonishment. The other things would not mean anything if you were not controlled by the love of God.

Del-Marie: True.

Galatians 5:6
6 The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Bob: If you have two people who are walking, being controlled by love, will that be a problem for you to be submissive to your husband?

Del-Marie: No.

Bob: Would it be a problem for him to be loving you as Christ loved the church?

Del-Marie: No.

Bob: No, not at all. There is the premise we are dealing with. The problem is, that we get down and say, “It does not matter if you are married to a horse’s neck, we are supposed to be submissive to it.” So you become a footstool or doormat to a husband who is not walking in the Spirit, walking in love. He is just trampling all over you. That is not what the context is dealing with. You have two people who love the Lord, who walk in the Spirit. That is the only way the husband is going to love you as Christ loved the church. Try that one on for size.

Bob: We cannot do that any more than you can live in subsmission. So both of those things are an impossibility unless Christ is doing it through you. There is the assumption. When you get away from that assumption, then you just get a command, “Husbands, love your wife, and wives, submit to your husband”, and then you miss the whole context. This is the context. This should be the norm for Christians. Husbands, you should love your wife as Christ loved the church. Wives, you should live in submission to your husband. Who wouldn’t to a husband who is loving you like Christ loved the church.

Bob: When that presupposition is set aside, then all we are teaching is legalistic obedience. Why that is being done is because people do not understand what it is to be controlled by the love of God. That is what it means to be filled with the Spirit, to be controlled by the Spirit. That is Ephesians 5 and there is more detail in Ephesians 3.

Ephesians 3:14-19
14 For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge – that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

Del-Marie: Another question to go along with that. They are saying that if your house is divided, it is not going to stand. But God cannot bless you. He will not listen to you and He will not answer your prayers. Do you see what I am saying?

Bob: That is nonsense. Are you in Christ?

Del-Marie: Yes, I am.

Bob: Then how can God not be listening to your prayer when He lives in you?

Del-Marie: Because it does. It causes conflict in your own prayer life. I have not …

Bob: That is your fault. That is not God’s. If you cannot get down to the place in your Christian experience that regardless of what you did that you cannot talk to God, then something is wrong with your relationship with God. You do not understand the fullness of God’grace and His mercy. In reality, if it were not for Jesus, you and I would be a goner. We have not come to grips at how depraved we are. We have to come to that point, as Paul did. What a wretched man I am.

Romans 7:21-25
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Bob: Until we see our wretchedness, how could we appreciate His mercy and grace. If we think we are doing okay, as if just a dab will do it, then you have to come to the conclusion that I do not even have Jesus. There is nothing in me that makes me worthy to go into the presence of God. God has done it all. When we understand that truth, His love, grace, mercy and kindness to us, that is what prepares us in a relationship with each other.

Bob: God is meeting that need for your unconditional love and acceptance. That is a need that is a spiritual need that can only be met by Jesus. When we do not understand that, Satan comes along and says that is a soulish need and you can get that met by your husband or children. So you become like ticks on a dog, sucking the life out of each other, trying to get my husband or my wife to love me and accept me unconditionally. You cannot do it. It is impossible. That need has to be met in Christ. Once that need is met, we take a deep breath, and say, “Wow, now I am prepared to start serving my mate in love instead of getting because I already got. Now I can start giving.” That is how marriages can stay together. If you are getting married so your husband will meet your needs, you will be one miserable wife, and vice versa.

Bob: Christ will meet your needs. Now you can serve one another in love. Nothing legalistic about that at all. It is just grabbing a hold of the grace of God, holding on to it, and saying “there for the grace of God, there go I” and resting in his love and mercy.

Bob: Does that help at all, Del-Marie?

Del-marie: Yes, it does. It helps in clarifying what they use for submission of the woman under a husband. But if the husband is not exactly …

Bob: Del-Marie, let me interpret that. Hold on there for a minute. When you have people teaching you that if you are not doing this, God will not listen to your prayer and He turns His back on you, that is nonsense. God lives in you. He never turns His back on you. Christ is your best friend. “Nothing can separate me from the love of God”, Paul said. But then people say that sin does. No, it does not. Sin has been put behind His back never to see it again. How can sin separate you when He said He has taken it away? What separates is your lack of understanding of the grace of God. The issue is nothing will separate you from the grace of God. You can always go to God. How much more would you want to go to God when you have been blowing it with your husband. That is when you need to go to Him. Well people say, “I am not going to hear you until you get right?” Well, I am already right with God. How can you ever get more right with God than when you are totally forgiven. You are a totally forgiven person. You are totally indwelt by Christ Jesus. You are totally loved by Christ Jesus. How can you get any more complete than that?

Hebrews 4:15-16
15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are – yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Del-Marie: Correct.

Bob: Do not ever hesitate to ever go into the presence of God.

Bob: It sounds like teaching going on there that is putting people under that legalistic bondage, saying “You must do this. You must love your husband. You must be obedient.” And these poor women are out there trying to be obedient to some man who is not worthy of obedience.

Del-Marie: That is where the conflict comes in because you want to do what the Lord wants you to do. But then the husband is not always there where you know where you know what the Lord wants you to do. That is where the conflict is. You cannot go along with lying and cheating, that kind of stuff. You know in your heart God has told you “No” and you do not need to go there.

Bob: When a woman has a husband like that, then a woman has to say “this is it.” You get your life turned around. Otherwise, you will not see me. I am not necessarily advocating that. You have husbands, in that realm, saying “This is the best news in my life”, and who take that teaching to mean they can treat their wife like a doormat. That is not the spirit of what Paul was teaching there at all.

Del-Marie: That helps me out a lot. Thank you so much.

Bob: You are sure welcome, Del-Marie.

Del-Marie: Okay. God bless you.

Bob: You too. Bye bye now.

Pat from Eugene, OR

Pat: Several gentlemen and I would like to create a little bible study group for men. What we are looking for is we are trying to figure out where we can start, going for what the biblical characteristic of what a man is supposed to be. Can you give us some hints on where to start? That would be great.

Bob: I do not think those are worthwhile bible studies about what men and women are like. The bible is about what people are like. What we look into is what the bible has to say about mankind and study that. You can focus on that, if you want to, but I have had a terrific ministry through men through my years. I have never tried to. I think that is why God blessed it. I have not tried to. I do not get into those things, with we guys. That is the very opposite. We guys are this way, and we women are this way and that talk is not productive. That is true for both of you and that is why we have problems. What we need to ask is what Jesus has to say about this.

Bob: In a bible study, you put your attention on Jesus and what He has to say. In men’s groups or women’s groups, one of the nice things about that, is that guys do have freedom to share some of their trials, tribulations, weaknesses and temptations, which they are not particularly open to do in a mixed setting. I am very much for men’;s and women’s bible studies, in that there is a freedom there that you do not necessarily have in a mixed group. Sooner or later, though, both of them meet. If you can have one group over here and later on combine them, I think that also is very beneficial.

Bob: I would just go through our Closer Look bible study books, starting right there with the deity of Christ, and taking them through the subject cover to cover. It is life changing. It is what has changed people’s lives in our ministry, for over 22 years on the air. I would get a hold of our bible studies and go through them. There is nothing I know of that is going to help people see the nature of who we are, and in so doing enabling us to begin to rely upon Christ Jesus for our life.

Pat: I know, biblically, we as men were told that we are supposed to be spiritual leaders. So we want to figure out where scripturally we can research that and draw that into us so we can become that. Eventualy break that off to bring families into it.

Bob: Again, what is God looking for? The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. How can you be a spiritual leader? By exercising faith, expressing itself through love. It isn’t complicated.

Pat: Thank you, Bob.

Bob: Thanks for your call, brother.

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