Call-In Classic Christianity Radio – Bob George P419 (3-01-19)
Bob George answers the common questions asked by people wanting to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Several callers asked about baptism. What is the difference between water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Bob explained that the baptism that saves is faith in the resurrection in Jesus Christ. He explains how water baptism is a symbol of what happened when someone is born again spiritually and placed into the body of Christ. Water baptism does not place you in the body of Christ. Churches might teach that water baptism places you in their local body, but water baptism can take place anywhere and is a public testimony of someone’s spiritual birth, a visual picture of what Christ alone did for him. You go under the water identifying with Christ’s death and come out of the water symbolizing that you are made into a new creation in Christ. In water baptism, you are testifying as being a part of the body of Christ, by spiritual baptism, having put your faith in what Christ alone has done for you in His resurrection.
One caller asked about the Lord’s supper, wanting to know whether the Lord’s supper should only be limited to church members? Bob George explained the real purpose of the Lord’s Supper, a celebration of the New Covenant. It too is a symbol of what Christ has done. When you eat from one loaf and it is ingested, then that symbolizes that Christ is in you, not literally, but symbolically, and being a part of the body of Christ, eating from one loaf, the bread of life, symbolizing also the word of God or the Holy Spirit living in you. Sadly, too many church’s incorrectly teach one must introvert, to see if they have any sin that needs to be confessed, so as to make themselves clean or worthy to partake, and also so as not to come under judgment. This is a misinterpretation of the meaning of scripture in 1 Corinthians 11:17-34 and is contrary to the message of the gospel that you are a redeemed and forgiven person whom the Lord will never remember your sins anymore under a New Covenant of God’s grace.
A lady asked about the meaning of submission in the context of scripture she had been reading. Bob explains that submissive is an attitude inside a person who is born again, and one submits to Christ the head first, and when walking in love and in the Spirit, only then does the admonition to live in peace in one another, or to love your wife, or for children to obey their parents, and slaves to obey their masters, makes sense. When a husband and wife are in competition with one another to outdo one another then they are not submitting to one another in love. One cannot submit in the energy of the flesh but this submission and love, these attitudes, have to be produced by the Spirit. Recall the parable of the vine and the branches also in John 15.
Another caller had a question on how to address the homosexual lifestyle that seems to be bombarding our society. To the believer caught up in sin, in accordance with Galatians 6:1, we are to point out his sin in order to restore him, and not to condemn. Nor do we condemn the lost person, for anyone who is lost is condemned already, because he has not believed in God’s only son, irregardless of whatever sin he is ensnared in. The lost person needs to hear the gospel. You can love him and also say that you detest what he does. Love him enough to tell him of his state of spiritual death, and to the degree he is willing to listen, share the gospel of God’s grace. Love him enough to tell him the truth. Homosexuality has pervaded our society and there are those, as Romans 1 testifies, who choose not to retain the knowledge of God and the sin progresses to the point that they know that what they do deserves death and they not only do it anyhow but encourage others to do the same. And such sin leads to further sins, God-haters, inventing ways of doing evil, and a whole list mentioned in Romans 1.
Christopher from Denver, Colorado
He was looking for a new church, currently going to fundamental baptist. He went to another one, that seemed doctrinally sound but it did not believe in baptism, and catered to communion for only members of the church.
Baptism and the Lord’s Supper
Bob George offered him a tape series on Baptism and the Lord’s Supper. Bob then addressed the perverted teaching on the Lord’s supper taught by so many churches today. The Lord’s supper is supposed to be a celebration of the New Covenant. For the listener unfamiliar with the New Covenant, the book of Hebrews, particularly chapters 7-10, is recommended.
Hebrews 10:16-18
“This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds. 17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.” 18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
We are not people who get forgiven we are a forgiven people.
Ephesians 1:7
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace
What do you have in him? Redemption. What else do you have? Forgiveness. You thank him for forgiveness and redemption because that is what you have possession of. Yet this is what occurs in so many churches. They dim the lights and get you into introspection and be sure you get all your sins confessed so you do not bring judgment and condemnation on yourself. That is not what we are supposed to do. That is not in accordance with truth of what we have in Christ Jesus.
This twisting of the meaning of the Lord’s Supper is from taking scripture out of context in 1 Corinthians 11:17-34. Paul was addressing the behavior of believers who were essentially not acting in love toward the poor among them, and were really not gathering for the Lord’s supper, but were acting in gluttony, eating all the food up before the poor arrived. Many of them got sick and died. In no way is that passage meant to say we are to introspect and ponder in our hearts over any sin we may have committed, confessing sin so as to be cleansed to be able to partake at the Lord’s supper or so we do not come under God’s judgment. Such teaching is contrary to who we are in Christ Jesus and what Jesus accomplished for us.
Romans 8:1
There is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.
The Lord made you clean already when you were born again. The Father is the initiator and said, forgive them for they not what they do. We respond to what God has done for us in His Son.
Luke 23:34
Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
Now in regards to Baptism, the majority of baptists teach correctly in accordance with biblical truth. Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation, but an outward picture of an inward change wrought by Christ. Paul said he did not come to baptize but to proclaim the gospel. So if that is true in regards to Paul then surely baptism has no importance in our salvation. Now whether a church has a baptistry or not is really not that important either. If you do have one, then good to have but not essential. Bob was involved in evangelism in a large First Baptist Church in Dallas, so knows about these things. Bob’s church he had in later life, he initially did not have a baptistry but then later they did.
If you are in the body of Christ, then that is what the Lord’s supper is for. Makes no sense for a non-believer to be baptized or to partake of the Lord’s Supper. It would have no meaning to him. Now the Lord’s Supper is also a picture of what Christ is done if it is presented correctly. Out of one loaf, you became one body. That is what passing of the bread is, a picture of how you and I became one body in Christ. After you eat the bread, the bread is gone and where is it now? In me. So it is a picture. Now drinking of wine is a picture of Christ taking sin away, shedding his blood on the cross. That is totally contrary to thinking that you become clean by sitting around confessing sins to one another.
Randy from Denver, Colorado
Randy stated that he was bombarded by secular T.V., and radio by loose lifestyles and homosexual stuff in the particular work environment he is in. He heard a guy saying he is a gay activist and yet claims he is a Christian. What should we say to such a person without being called a bigot?
What would you rather be called, a bigot or a pervert? In essence, we can say, “If you get up and call me a bigot, then if we are into name calling then I can call you a pervert.” You do not have to be a Christian to know that that activity is perversion. Yet, God’s word clearly spells out what is perversion in Leviticus. The Jews lived under Levitical law, and such laws were established by God and delivered to Moses to instruct the people.
Leviticus 20:13
13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.
Lots of money and people in Hollywood and people in high places supporting an agenda to make homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle. And now there is this promotion of even allowing homosexual couples to adopt and that is heart-breaking indeed for the children raised under such perversion. I can love people but I am not going to compromise truth and say it is anything but what God calls it, a sin of perversion. Why do they just call out one form of perversion and make it acceptable and not others? They have gay parades. What about adultery parades, bestiality parades, and any other parades of perversion, parading sin around. Why single out one, if you are into perversion? Bob has had callers call in who were homosexuals, and came to Christ, and walked away for awhile from such a lifestyle but then found themselves back in it. You follow what scripture says, if you find someone trapped in sin, you seek to restore them.
Galatians 6:1
Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.
A person practicing sin, whether homosexual or homosexual perversion, we, as believers, are to reach out with truth to restore him. It is not up to me to condemn him but it is up to me to point it out as wrong in accordance with scripture. We are to point out their sin in all humility and seek their restoration back to right living in accordance with the truth that God has set them free. The last group of people this agenda has to go after in order to gain acceptance is the church of Jesus Christ. They have made it acceptable in the political realm, in the education realm, in the entertainment realm, and they have made it acceptable in every realm of society except the church. That is the next agenda. They have gained ground with an Episcopal bishop who has accepted such perversion. And they will continue to propagate their agenda to other churches to gain traction. When that happens, then they are looking at the face of God, standing at the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They are in essence saying, “I don’t need you God to tell me right from wrong, I will determine on my own what is right and wrong”. When that occurs, it is a sign of their spiritual death. You can love people but you can tell them that you detest what they are dong because it is perverted lifestyle.
Romans 1 clearly details this progression of sin when people do not retain the knowledge of God.
Romans 1:28-32
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Alley from Austin, TX
Alley made reference to a passage in scripture that she thought had said for us to act in submission to one another in the church. And also for wives to be submissive to their husbands. Is that the same Greek word in both contexts?
Ephesians 5:21-23
21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
When talking about being submissive, let us first address attitudes in the heart. God instructs wives to submit to their husband, for husbands to love their wife and to not be harsh with them, for children to obey your parents, for fathers to not embitter their children, and for slaves to obey their master. All these are attitudes of those born again and who is a child of the living God. That is the first criteria, “Are you born again?” If you are born again, in order to let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, and because we are all one body, then we are told to live at peace with one another. You cannot live in peace with husband if trying to outdo one another. Likewise, a woman cannot live in peace with her husband trying to outdo him.
Colossians 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.
Bob corrected her when she had thought she had read the word submissive in regards to be submissive to the church, meaning the people of the church who are born again. There is nothing in Ephesians 5:21-23 talking about submitting to the church in there. We are to submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. There is nothing in there about being submissive to the church. The word submissive comes from the fact we are all a part of the body of Christ, and He is the head.
Colossians 1:18
18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
First of all, our submission is to the head, who is Christ. If I am living in submission to the head, then the submission to the rest of the body becomes a natural response. We try to reverse that without paying attention to the head, and we cannot pull it off. The wife says, “Boy, it sure is hard submitting to my husband”, and he says in response, “You try loving you as Christ loves the church.” How can I love my wife as Christ loves the church without Christ living in and through me. All this about submission is predicated on two people who are walking in the Spirit and walking in love. Walking in the Spirit is being controlled by the love of God. To be filled with the Spirit is to be controlled by the love of God. If not controlled by the love of God, then all these admonishments do not mean anything to you because you cannot pull it off.
2 Corinthians 5:14-14 (ESV)
14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:16-17
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do
Galatians 2:22-24
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Ephesians 3:17-19
17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
So the passage mentions the church submits to Christ but not to each other. If you are submitting to Christ, then you will be in the attitude of submitting to one another in love. We have an attitude of dependency on the head, then the attitude toward one another is a natural response to that. Literally basking of the depth of the love of God, the height and depth and width, and if controlled by such love, how am I not going to be submissive to one another? They are by-products but you cannot pull them off in the energy of the flesh.
Erwin from Hercules, CA
Erwin called specifically for clarification about the difference between baptism with water and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Mark 1:7-9
7 And this was his message: “After me comes the one more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. 8 I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
Which one do you suppose saves you? The Spirit.
When you are baptized with the Holy Spirit, where the Spirit is placed in you, only God can do that. No one gets into Christ’s body by being dunked in water. Baptism of water may make you placed in a church, a local body, but not Christ’s body. The only time come in contact with body of Christ is when Christ does the work, and when you are placed into the body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:27
Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
Ephesians 3:6
6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
So churches out there, teaching in error, say, “Who cares about placed into His body. I want you to be placed in my body? Only mine means something.” Your baptism cannot do anything but get you wet.
1 Peter 3:21
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ
A symbol cannot save. Removal of dirt from the body cannot save. There is nothing we can do to save anybody. Salvation is from God and God alone.
Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit
Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.
John’s baptism is equivalent to being baptized in water. If you have not received the Holy Spirit then that baptism of water does not mean anything. Being baptized in water did not create the Holy Spirit to come in you. The Holy Spirit has to come by faith in His resurrection. We miss the dynamic of the gospel by ignoring truth of the resurrection where the Holy Spirit comes to dwell within men who believed the fullness of the gospel. No one is saved with a partial gospel.
Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
In Acts, there were people who were only baptized by John, having not heard about the resurrection of Christ. They had not yet received the Holy Spirit so they were not saved.
Acts 19:2-4
2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied. 4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
Without the Holy Spirit, they do not belong to Him.
1 John 5:12
Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
Sincere people for sure for they went into baptismal waters with John the Baptist, a baptism of repentance. Sincere for sure, but they were not complete yet until came to the resurrection and baptized by the Holy Spirit. When they put their trust in the resurrection life of Christ, then they were saved.
