Call-In Classic Christianity Radio – Bob George P469 (8-30-19)
Bob George answers questions from several callers. A common question asked by many people is, “Can I lose my salvation?” There are denominations that teach this, such as the Church of the Nazarene, but truth is not found in a denominational persuasion. Jesus came to this earth to explain truth to men. The natural man cannot understand truth, for truth must be spiritually discerned. The humble will receive truth and believe what Jesus had said. When they choose to believe truth in regards to what Christ Jesus did, through his death, burial and resurrection, they become born again that moment, have the Spirit of God placed in them, and are said to have the mind of Christ.
People can be persuasive in speech and even know a lot of scriptures but do not know the truth. That was true of the Jews in Jesus day, and they memorized much of the Old Testament, but did not recognize Jesus when he came and even sought to kill him. Men too can be liars and deceivers but also men who are simply spiritually dead like all of us once were. So they believe something to be true from what they have heard and simply repeat it like a parrot.
Often times even believers can be unsure how to answer someone’s question. Even though they know a lot of truth themselves, they stumble over a passage that they have either not studied enough in context or a passage that is just unclear to them. The key to answering this kind of question is to know what salvation is.
Salvation is not dependent on anything you do but on what Christ alone has already done. When a person realizes that their sins have already been forgiven at the cross over 2000 years ago, then sins are not the issue. Sin is the cause of death but that cause of death has now been taken away. But that does not mean everyone is saved. It just means you have been reconciled already from God’s vantage point. Salvation is not getting sins’s forgiven but the receiving of life. Your sins are also not forgiven when you believe. They were taken away by the shed blood of Christ. According to scripture, without the shedding blood there is no forgiveness of sin. Jesus shed his blood only once and that took away all the sins of the world, back in the time of Adam and forward into the future and to all eternity.
So the real problem of man is his condition of death. You remain dead until you receive life, God’life. As mentioned earlier, they have already been taken away from the eyes of God by Jesus eternal sacrifice on the cross. But Jesus did not stay on the cross. The cross was necessary for salvation, as a preparatory work, but salvation is not simply getting sins forgiven but the receiving of life. Jesus died first to take away the cause of death, in order for God the Father to raise him from the dead, so that that life that raised him from the dead will raise you from the dead also. When you receive eternal life, you are receiving the very life of Christ Jesus. This is eternal life, to know God and His Son Jesus Christ. The Spirit is placed in you so you can bear fruit, a new life to be lived by depending on Christ to live that life in you and through you, producing the fruit of the Spirit you could never produce.
The issue is that man is dead and in need of life. Man’s sins reveal to him a deeper problem within him. That deeper problem is that he does not have the Spirit of life living in him. That is why man asks the questions, “Why am I here?” and “What is missing in life?” or “What is wrong with me?”? The origin of this condition of death can be understood from Genesis.
When Adam was created, God breathed in him the breathe of life, the very life of God, the Spirit of life. That Spirit of life left Adam when he sinned in the garden of Eden. Since then every man born in Adam was born in the likeness of Adam, born spiritually dead, without the Spirit of God in him. That is why Jesus came to earth, to restore fallen mankind back to God’s original design in creation, for man to live in total dependency in a loving relationship with God his creator.
Bob explained this background information to Sam as to what salvation is in order to address the question, “Can I lose salvation?”. Sam already knew the answer to this, for he himself shared several scriptures that clearly explain that you cannot lose your salvation. There are many passages of scriptures, such as Jesus saying, “No one can snatch him from My Father’s hand.” What Sam was stumped on was this passage of scripture in John 15 where Jesus shared the parable of the vine and the branches with his disciples.
Sam called on behalf of a friend who said that he had a person who fell back into sin. He said, “If he died, he would have been thrown away like those branches”. Sam said, “I did not know how to answer him. I told him to call you but he did not want to. So I figured I would call and ask you.”
The parable of the vine and the branches has nothing to do with salvation. It is a passage about bearing fruit. A person without the Spirit of God cannot bear fruit, and cannot even discern the things of God. This passage is saying that a person who does not remain on the vine cannot bear fruit. If a person has the Spirit of God living in him but is not listening to the Spirit then he is not remaining in communication with the Spirit and therefore will not bear fruit. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness and self control, according to Galatians 5:22-23. These things man could never produce on his own. They have to be produced by the Spirit, as a born again person allows the Spirit to live in and through him. So if a man is not bearing these fruit qualities, then he is likened to a worthless branch that has not remained attached to the vine.
Sam was puzzled why this man he had been sharing with was not understanding these things. He shared with him many scriptures. Bob says there are only two reasons he cannot understand. First of all, he may not even born again, not having the Spirit of God living in him. According to scripture, a man without the Spirit of God cannot discern the things of the Spirit and it all sounds like foolishness to him. The man with the spirit can discern all things because he has the mind of Christ. The other reason is, that if he does have the Spirit, then he is paying no attention at all to the Spirit.
Sam was still bothered by the fact his friend seemed to know so much scriptures and appeared to have knowledge of things. Recall that even the Jews knew what the word of God said, but they did not know what they meant. Indeed, even the disciples, prior to Pentecost, the day they received the Holy Spirit, did not understand the truth Jesus was sharing. Even the religious Jews, the Pharisees diligently studied the scriptures but failed to come to Christ to receive life. Instead they sought to kill him, being totally blind and ignorant and full of religious pride.
The key is will you trust the words of men, or some denominational persuasion over the word of God? If you have the Spirit of God living in you, will you take the time to read the entire passage in context, and ask the Lord to explain these things to you. He gives wisdom to all who ask without partiality, and having the mind of Christ, you can discern what the scriptures mean.
The last caller, Daniel, asked for advice in regards to a stain in their marriage due to his parents, and particularly his mother, who are trying to control their lives. Bob shared from Genesis how he is the head of his family now and hey are to leave and to leave. H needs to decide to stand from in truth and let the chips fall where they may. Tell his wife they are putting this behind them and moving forward with t heir life together. You cannot fix her if she has a heart that is wanting to control. You have to leave her in the hands of God. You and your wife are together. Tell your wife, “If you are mad at my mom, I understand that, but try loving her like Christ, but we are going on with our marriage regardless of my mom’s choices. It is our life and we are going to get on with our marriage.”
Sam from Corpus Christi, TX
He heard someone say that you could lose your salvation. He says, “You could walk away from Jesus”. I told him you cannot walk away from Jesus because He lives in you. I shared with him many scriptures, explaining things to him. I shared with him from John 15, concerning the vine and the branches.
1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.”
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.”
His friend said, “See, you can be thrown away”.
Do you believe that, Sam?
No, if you are in Christ, he lives in your heart. You cannot walk away from Him. His friend said that he had a person who fell back into sin. He said, “If he died, he would have been thrown away like those branches”. I did not know how to answer him. I told him to call you but he did not want to. So I figured I would call and ask you.
There is no way for this guy to bear fruit because he is not abiding. It is abiding in the truth of Christ Jesus who will never leave you or forsake you. Jesus went to a cross and cried from the cross, “it is finished”. There is nothing more than you can add or subtract from that. Jesus is the one who called us from the promised land into the Sabbath rest, resting from our works just He did from His.
9 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
That is Jesus is who you remain in and abide in. He is not doing that. He is not remaining in Jesus of the cross or Jesus of the resurrection. He is abiding in his false understanding of his denominational persuasion. Those verses Jesus is talking about in John 15 have nothing to do with salvation. They had to do with the bearing of fruit. The only way a branch is going to bear fruit is to be by abiding in the vine. It does not mean a branch is going to be cut off. It just means it is not going to bear fruit. When he does not remain in Him, he becomes like a branch that is worthless. As far as bearing of fruit or being a representative on earth of the body of Christ, he is like a branch burnt up. It is worthless. It does not mean he is lost. It just means he is worthless. It is like those scriptures that say there will be those who enter in barely by fire.
22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear-hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh
The reason there is no such thing as the loss of salvation is when you know what salvation is. Salvation is being saved from the consequences of sin, which is death. You are born dead as a hammer.
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; ”
When you realize the truth of that, then what you need, knowing you are dead, is life. The only life available to me is the life of Christ, who did not choose to give us temporal life but eternal life. In order to give us eternal life, he had to deal eternally with what caused spiritual death, which is sin. That is why the cross was preparatory to salvation. The cross in and of itself is not salvation. It is preparatory to salvation. It is what God had to do to clear the deck for the divine action of bringing life to the dead.
20 It was through what his Son did that God cleared a path for everything to come to him – all things in heaven and on earth – for Christ’s death on the cross has made peace with God for all by his blood.
21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
It is restoring in us what we had lost in Adam, which is the Spirit of God living in us. God in the man is indispensable to the true humanity in the man.
1 Corinthians 15:22
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
The reason people believe you can lose salvation is because they do not know what salvation is. If they knew what salvation was, it would be ludicrous to make that statement. Salvation is life. The only solution to death is life. The only life available to us is Christ’s life. The kind of life that he chose to give us is eternal life. What he had to do to give us eternal life is to eternally take away the cause of death, which is sin. It is not talking about salvation but about bearing fruit. So this is a man not remaining in Him. He is not remaining in truth.
3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
When you are sinning against the knowledge of truth, there is nothing to look forward to but the expectation of a raging fire, if you continually sin against the truth. What is the truth? It was stated in the previous verse.
15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
If you sin against the truth, you are going to hell, according to the scriptures. I did not say that. The scriptures said that. You are making a mockery of the cross, essentially spitting in the face of Jesus, saying He did not take away the sins of the world. He is denying that God was in Christ reconciling world against Himself. He is calling Jesus a lair in regard to His crying out on the cross, “it is finished”. He is calling Paul a liar saying Jesus did not die for all our sins. He is doing all of those things.
2 Corinthians 5:18-19
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
Sam continued to share several verses he tried to explain to his friend.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
He needs more explanation than that. He needs to see the logic behind how false his logic is.
Sam said, “I keep giving him verse after verse”.
There is an explanation for that. The natural man cannot understand spiritual things.
1 Corinthians 2:14
14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
There is no way this man is abiding in the vine. You cannot abide in Jesus and abide in error. Jesus is not error. Jesus is truth. The truth about Jesus is what he accomplished for you and me in his death, burial and resurrection, a salvation as secure as the death of Christ and the resurrection of Christ. If he is not abiding, it could be he has never abided because he has never been saved. According to the scripture, if natural man cannot understand spiritual things, and you are stating spiritual things to him and he cannot understand them, the bible says it is because he is natural man, lost, or not paying attention at all to the Spirit of God living in him. There is no other explanation to that, Sam.
Sam says, “He sounds well versed”. He says, “Every time I sin, I repented”. If he believes that, then he would never have to repent again. Every sin he ever committed, he only committed once. That is a lie. The Jews sounded good. The people who killed Jesus read the bible. They had most of it memorized. You cannot pay attention because of what people claim. You have to pay to attention to what they claim. How can you be saved if you do not know what salvation is?
Sam said, “I told him that Jesus said, ‘I am the resurrection and the life’ and ‘I will never leave you or forsake you’”.
He cannot understand that, can he? Sam came up with a few other verses. Then Bob continued sharing. Here is the issue. A natural man, a man without the Spirit of God in him, cannot understand spiritual things. It sounds foolish to them.
1 Corinthians 2:8-10
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived” –
the things God has prepared for those who love him –
10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
That means you have no way of interpreting the meaning of the word of God apart from the Spirit of God revealing it to you. If the Spirit of God is not living in you, then you have no ability for revelation. The man without the Spirit cannot discern those things. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things from the Spirit of God. Does the grace of God you are quoting to him come from the Spirit of God? Yes, but how come he cannot understand them? It is foolish to him. He cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned. Spiritual truths have to be spiritually discerned. A man who is not spiritual cannot discern something spiritually.
1 Corinthians 2:15-16
15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”
But we have the mind of Christ.
If you have the mind of Christ, you are teaching truth to someone who is denying what Jesus Christ said and what Jesus Christ meant. He knows what Jesus said but does not know what the scripture means. He does not have the Spirit to reveal it to him. You cannot abide in Christ Jesus and be abiding in error. Christ Jesus is truth. You cannot be abiding in Christ Jesus and be interpreting scripture the way he is interpreting it. That is not Spirit interpretation. It is not talking about loss of salvation. It is talking about bearing fruit. You become like a branch. That does not mean that it is going to happen to you. If you are not going to bear fruit that God has to produce in you, then what good are you as a branch? Remain in Christ Jesus and He will produce in you and through you what He wants to produce. But He cannot produce anything in you and through you if the Spirit of God is not living in you.
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
If you do not receive the knowledge of truth, there is nothing to look forward to except hell. You cannot be trampling under foot. That is what you are doing when you are saying you can lose your salvation. You are trampling under foot the one who has claimed to have put the sin on the back of God, never to see it again. How can you lose salvation if all sins are put on the back of God never to be seen again?
28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
What are you doing? You are trampling that under foot, treating unholy the blood that sanctifies, and insulting the Spirit of grace. Why are you insulting the Spirit of grace? Because you have no capabilty of understanding the Spirit of grace because the Holy Spirit of God is not living in you or you are not paying any attention to Him.
2 Corinthians 3:6
6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant – not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
If you are teaching people lose salvation then you are under the law. If you sin, what is the wages of sin under law?
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
What is the wages of sin under the law? Death!
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”
Anyone under that is under a curse.
This man that you feel is so spiritual, that according to the word of God, he is not abiding in truth. The reason he is, is because he is not saved. If he is, he is saved and sorry, because he is not paying an ounce of attention to what Jesus said in regards to what it means to take away all sin. Jesus took away all sins, back from Adam and forward to eternity, in order that we may have eternal life. Why? It is because of the eternal consequences of the cross.
I would have no hesitancy in telling him he is not abiding in Christ because he is not abiding in truth.
Daniel from Phoenix, AZ
Daniel explained how has been bothering him these past three years. He has been married three years. Other than having a happy marriage and a happy life, life is unstable. Every move we make to find happiness is thwarted. Her wife was not a Christian when he met her. After a week of being married, she gave her life to the Lord. His mom is controlling. His wife feels like his parents do not accept her and are always critical towards her. If his mother is acting carnal and not biblical, then he tries to explain it to her. She is okay with not talking at all to his mother. One or the other is not wanting to talk. She does not even want kids to see his parents. He does not want parents to hate him and still wants to honor parents. So how do I work this situation out. As a father of his own home, there is a limit, a boundary he must keep.
In first place, your mom and dad are not your parents anymore. If your mom remains angry over that, then that is her problem. They ought to stay out of your life. The problem is with your mom. You have to stand up. The bible tells the man to leave his father and mother, and cleave to one another, and become one. The man tends to hang on to the skirt tails of his mother. Mother wants to continue mothering a child who has grown.
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
So leave and cleave, so you are the head of a new entity, a new household. The problem is not with your wife but your mom. You are in a position where you do not want to offend anyone. But you have to stand up and offend someone, and that someone needs to be your mom. Sit down with your mom and tell her it is your family and tell her not to control your family.
Daniel continues elaborating on his situation, “Moving from one house to another and supposed to stay a little bit. At first hit off well. Yet, mom felt had right to say certain thing. She is my wife and do want her to accept my wife and rather her not accept me.”
Bob interrupted and told him to quit going over and over these things again and again. He directed him to what he should be doing and leave those thoughts behind. They certainly are not doing anybody any good going over these things. You need to take the initiative to communicate the matter with your mother.
The issue is that you are married and the two of you have become one. Leave the decision in her hands, whether she is going to accept correction to stop controlling your family. Get on with your own life and do not worry about it anymore. If she ever comes to her senses, then praise God. If not, go on with your life and let the chips fall where they may. You cannot fix her if she has a heart that is wanting to control. You have to leave her in the hands of God. You and your wife are together. Tell your wife, “If you are mad at my mom, I understand that, but try loving her like Christ, but we are going on with our marriage regardless of my mom’s choices. It is our life and we are going to get on with our marriage.”