Call-In Classic Christianity Radio – Bob George P473 (9-13-19)
Synopsis
Logan from New Orleans, LA
Logan: I have a question about Hebrews 6. I understand you cannot lose salvation but when I read this I do not understand.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Bob: This is talking to the very people who think they can lose salvation. Hebrew 10 is dealing with this issue. The book was written to Hebrews. How do the Hebrews get their sins forgiven prior to Christ? The day of atonement. They sacrifice animals. They went back to the day of atonement to get their sins forgiven. Once Christ took away the sins of the entire world when he went to the cross, do you still go back to the day of atonement to get sins forgiven? No. They were talking out of both sides of their mouth.
Bob: I will cover Hebrews 10 before Hebrews 6 because it goes into more detail.
Hebrews 10:1-18
1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming – not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am – it is written about me in the scroll – I have come to do your will, my God.’”[Psalm 40:6-8]8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them” – though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[Jeremiah 31:33]17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[Jeremiah 31:34]18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
Hebrews 10 goes into detail explaining the New Covenant God established through the death of His Son. It contrasts the continual need of sacrificing animals under an Old Covenant with a once and for all sacrifice of Jesus, God Himself, on a cross. The New Covenant is stated this way, “I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds”, “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.” and “where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.”
Hebrews 10:26-31
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Bob: If we keep on sinning, we are sinning against the knowledge of truth. What are you sinning against? The knowledge of truth. Jesus just brought in a New Covenant, which is just a few verses prior to this. The author of Hebrews writes concerning a New Covenant God made with man.
Hebrews 10:16-17
16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[Jeremiah 31:33]17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[Jeremiah 31:34]
Bob: Put aside your sacrificial system. It is over. The blood of bulls and goats can never take away sins. Only the blood of God Himself can take away sins. The blood of bulls and goats covered sins, until the next time, but the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sins.
Bob: Now, in Hebrews 10:26-29, there is very severe talk, talk of fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. If you deliberately keep on sinning after receiving the knowledge of truth, that there is no more sacrifice for sin, it goes on to say there is no sacrifice of sins that is left. Now if anyone rejected the law of Moses died without mercy, how much more severely do you think someone deserves, (does not say will, but deserves), to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, treated as unholy the blood of the Covenant that sanctified them, and who insulted the Spirit of grace?
Bob: This covenant says, “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.” That is what is taking place in our Christian circles today. We are insulting the Spirit of grace, trampling underfoot the blood Jesus shed on a cross, putting his blood on the same par as the atonement. The New Covenant does not use atonement but propitiation.
1 John 2:2 (KJV)
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 4:10 (KJV)
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Logan: The NIV uses atonement in 1 John.
Bob: That is a terrible translation. The word is propitiation, not atonement. In the Greek language, atonement is not used in the New Testament.
Hebrews 10:3-4
3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Bob: All of this is tasting, not drinking or swallowing. This is all talking about the denial of the finality of the cross. The reason you cannot be brought back to repentance is because you cannot be brought back to where you have never been. Have you ever noticed how hard it is to be brought back to where you have never been? You cannot be brought back to repentance because you never repented in the first place. This is talking out of two sides of your mouth.
Bob: The same thing is going on today. You pound the bible on top of the pulpit saying, “all your sins are forgiven; past, present and future” out of one side of your mouth and then turn around with the other side of your mouth say, “if you confess your sins to God, God will forgive you”. That is double talk. So you create double minded people who are unstable in all their ways.
James 1:5-8
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.
2 Peter 3:15-17
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.
Bob: There is no consistency in teaching. That is spinning the cross. You cannot spin the cross. When Jesus cried out, “It is finished” he meant, “It is finished”. There is no more sacrifice for sin. There is no confessional booth for sin. There is no 1 John 1:9 confession for sin. It is over. It is finished. It is done.
Bob: The reason you cannot be brought back to repentance is because they are crucifying the Son of God all over again. They do not believe he took away the sins of the world the first time. So they are bringing him back, subjecting him to public disgrace. If there was any further sin to be executed on your and my behalf, then he would have to come and die on a cross. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness. If you are denying the finality of the cross, and still seeking forgiveness, that is no different than hanging Jesus back on a cross and beating the daylights out of him again so you can feel better about your forgiveness instead of walking in faith that it is finished.
Hebrews 9:22
22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Logan: Is it true that some people do not understand and are truly saved and just ask for forgiveness?
Bob: Yes, I was saved for seven years, just as much then as I am now. I was diligently trying to keep short accounts with God, but I lost the joy of my salvation, being preoccupied with sin rather than being preoccupied with His life. This is the issue I had to deal with, and everyone has to deal with, to settle this question, “Why should I have to ask God for forgiveness when He died for the sins of the entire world?” Even though I was diligent in keeping short accounts with God, there was something inside me telling me this is not right. When I finally came to understand the truth, then I firmly held onto the truth. You cannot be held to account for something you do not understand. God will not leave us in our ignorance. He will guide you into all truth. He will lead you into truth.
Logan: I have been struggling teaching bible studies, teaching such truths. The meaning of 1 John 1:9 and Hebrews 6 was never quite revealed to me so I can internalize and explain to them. What I understand he is saying in Hebrews, the reason they cannot come back from where they were is because they never united the word of God with faith.
Bob: They were professors and not possessors. That was true of many Hebrews in those days. It would be like a person who grew up Catholic. Over 80% of people in our ministry came from a Catholic background. They have a heart for God and certainly love what they know about Jesus, but were never taught the depth of the word of God and, in many instances, have never been taught the Pauline letters. All there life they are going to a confession booth to get their sins forgiven. Now they come to Christ, and start understanding that God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting people’s sins against them.
2 Corinthians 5:18-19
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.
2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!
Bob: Yet their traditions are so strong that they keep going back to the confession booth. Then they learn more.
1 John 2:1-2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Bob: So they start asking, “Why am I going back to a priest to get my sins forgiven?” But for tradition, they go back. After a while they will have to make a decision, and ask, “Have I truly repented of that unbelief?” You do not get your sins forgiven going to a priest. You get your sins forgiven by Christ Jesus and that only once, and that 2000 years ago on a cross.
Hebrews 7:27
27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
Hebrews 9:12
12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.
1 John 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Bob: Jesus is saying, “I am not going to die again. There is no more forgiveness of sin to be executed. It has been dealt with by God and it is over. Propitiation has taken place”. Am I going to believe that or believe that I am going to go back to a priest?
Bob: If you are going to believe that, then you have never repented. You cannot come back and repent because you never changed your mind. There is going to be a time in your life that you have to let go of that tradition and grab a hold of the finality of the cross and walk in it.
Bob: All that applies whether you are a Catholic, going to a confessional booth, or a Protestant, quoting 1 John 1:9. So no matter what your denomination is, you have to make a decision as to what you will believe. Did Jesus do it all or didn’t he? If Jesus took away my sins, never to see again, then why am I continually asking Him to do what He has already accomplished, instead of thanking Him that he has taken all my sins away never to see again. Am I changing my mind, coming to believe that Jesus really took away my sins and about tradition that just took me back and I do not like it. We really do not know where people are. That is between them and God.
Bob: Did He take away the sins of the entire world or didn’ he?
Logan: Yes he did.
Bob: Faith says I am going to believe that and walk in it. He took away my sins never to be seen again. I will never be judged for sins and I will never be judged for the sin of unbelief for I became a believer. I say, “Daddy, Father, I thank you for mercy in time of need and a relationship with You that can never be disturbed by me”.
John from Nashville, TN
John: I have a question about church membership. I was born again as a young person. I joined church but later moved to different cities. I never joined a church. They are really big about church membership. I do not see the big deal about it myself. What do you think about this?
Bob: Church membership, the kind you are talking about, is totally man-made. There is nothing in the bible about it. If you are born again, you already are a member of Christ’s church. It seems that ought to be good enough for you. It does for me. We certainly do not have any membership in our church because people that are there, are either already a member of the body of Christ, or are soon to become one, but they certainly are not going to become a member of the body of Christ by joining our church. So why join?
Bob: What people want to do is to get people on the membership rolls and get you as a part of the club. I am now a Cowanyian or a Rotarian. Do not ask me to be a Cowanyian because I am a Rotarian and that is where my membership is. It does not make any difference if they continue to do anything good or not. So it becomes very legalistic.
Bob: I have known a man who said he is a Baptist from top of his head to the bottom of his foot. He would say, “If you clipped me with a needle, I would bleed Baptist”. That is where his identity is. My identity is not in that. My identity is as a child of God. That is what God made me. None of these other things are in the bible. There are no Catholics or Baptists in the bible. There are just born again people who are now called children of God.
John 1:12-13
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God – 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Bob: Note that the scripture does not say that you have the right to become a Baptist. No, it say you have the right to become a child of God. That is the only identity that I want. I do not want my identity to be placed as being a minister. I am not a minister. I just happen to be a child of God who is in the ministry. My identity is not in what I do. My identity is in who I am. That is really important to get in our hearts. My identity is not where I go on Sunday morning or Wednesday evening or anything else. My identity is in the fact that Jesus made me into a child of the living God. If that is not good enough for people then something is really wrong with their relationship with Christ.
John: I agree, Bob. Other than that I see nothing else really wrong, except for that. Why they still think so much of that, they just say you need to be a member of some local congregation.
Bob: Where do you find that in the bible?
John: You don’t. He cannot find it either. He just quotes some scriptures and when I read it, I just read I am already a member.
Bob: How do you suppose Paul, who traveled all over Greece and much of that known world, had time to be a member of any local membership? These things are ludicrous.
Bob: So then they say you have to transfer your letter. What does the letter have to do with anything? Maybe I do not want to go to the Presbyterian church any more? All this results from either not knowing or not believing you are a member of the body of Christ. He is the head and you and I are a part of the body. Local membership does not mean a thing to anybody. I am a child of the living God, a part of the body of Jesus Christ. If that is not good enough for you, then there is something wrong with you.
1 Corinthians 12:27
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
Ephesians 4:15
15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ.
Ephesians 5:23
23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
Colossians 3:15
15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.
John: I agree. That is not good enough for him. If I want to go I will. If I don’t, I won’t.
Bob: Absolutely. They will not kick you out if you sit in the pew and listen to them.
John: They might think less of you, but that is their problem not mine. I am not going to worry about it either.
Joey from Memphis, TN
Joey: I am a believer. I have been speaking to one of my ex co-workers, a friend of mine. He is a Jehovah Witness. He has a lot to say about the Jehovah Witness faith, but some things he does say gets my curiosity. Number one. The sovereignty of God and us praying to God versus praying to Jesus. I understand about praying in the name of Jesus.
Bob: There is a reason Jehovah Witness have a deal with that. Suppose you have a Jehovah Witness come into your house and you ask him to pray with you, then you might as well be having a tree to be praying. Jehovah Witnesses do not believe Jesus is God. So you are dealing with an anti-Christ. So when dealing with an anti-Christ, you are dealing with someone who has been taught wrong and now is in the process of devoting his life to convince people of heretical teaching of Jehovah Witnesses that Jesus is not God.
Bob: Jesus is God. If Jesus is not God then might as well throw the book in the trash and quit playing church. Only God can die for the sins of the world. Who can forgive sins but God alone. Scripture declares him to be God. The apostles declared him to be God and died telling others he is God. These people are really out to lunch and are in dangerous ground, for if they do not change their mind and come to Jesus for who He is, they will go to hell. It is not because they have not tried to do good works or because they might be nice appearing people. They have denied the truth of God’s testimony.
1 John 5:11-13
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Bob: Their problem is they have tried to put flesh and blood on God. It is like an egg. An egg has shell, a white, and a yolk. Which is the egg? It is still an egg. It takes three parts to make one. We do not know what the Spirit looked like. We can’t. Jesus came to explain who God is. He is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. It just like the egg. It is not three different eggs. It is one egg with three distinct parts.
Bob: They deny Christ. They rewrite their bible.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Bob: In their bible, the book of Mormon, they rewrite that to say, “a God”. If it is an “a God” then that means you have a little god and a big god. That defies the very thing they put on the Watchtower, and that is, “There is only one God, no one before me and none after me”. When start with the basics like that, they have nothing to say to me.
Bob: All I do is try to get them off the streets and convince them they are teaching doctrine that will send them to hell. That is what you have to do. Do not get taken in by their knowledge of their Jehovah scriptures, for they have been taught well in regard to defy or deny the fact that Jesus is God. Who can forgive sin but God alone.
Mark 2:6-12
6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, 11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”
Bob: Who can forgive sin but God alone. You are dealing with anti-Christ. They are in very dangerous ground. They certainly need to be spoken to but they are well trained in their heretical doctrine. I can take them to the last chapter of Revelation, where it talks about Jehovah God, who is and was and is coming again, and names Jesus by name. There is not much you can do to argue on that. If they do not want to talk about the deity of Jesus Christ, then there is nothing to talk to them about.
Revelation 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Revelation 22:12-17
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
