Call-In Classic Christianity Radio – Bob George P458 (7-25-19)
Synopsis
Several callers ask Bob questions pertaining to things they have heard out in the world today, and not just the secular world but the Christian world. Bobby called to comment on how sad it is when so many people listen to false teachers, like the Kenneth Copeland‘s. Bob commented that the real issue is where are people going to spend eternity. False teachers have just enough truth to draw people in to listen but intermixed with so much garbage that messes them up for the rest of their life. Is that just like Satan, who is really the one behind this great deception. Bob then addressed the real issue that each person needs to ask himself, “am I saved or am I not saved?” Bob then explained from Hebrews 10:26 what sin keeps someone from being saved from death and the real need of man to have new life in Christ. Bob explained that Jesus death on the cross is when the sins of the entire world was taken away. That does not mean the whole world is saved. You are not saved through the death of Christ but through the life of Christ. Bob shares from scriptures, including Hebrews 10:26-27, Romans 3:20, Romans 5:10, 2 Corinthians 5:19, 1 John 2:2, Revelation 3:20 to explain where forgiveness of sins happened and what salvation really is. Salvation is being saved from the consequences of sin, which is death, in order to receive new spiritual life, the resurrected life in Jesus Christ.
When someone trusts in Christ alone, the resurrected life of Christ, to save him, having understood that all his sins have already been forgiven at the cross, he asks Christ to come in and he is born again. Another caller, Dorothy, was a little confused on what happens when you are born again. She was not correctly understanding a passage of scripture. Bob referred her to Matthew 24:4-8 as to where she might be getting confused. Dorothy asked, “If Christ is in you and in someone else, how many Christs are there?” Scripture clearly teaches that there is only one Christ, and His Spirit indwells in man who is born again but man does not become God. Bob shared from John 4:24 and 1 Corinthians 15:50 to explain what happens at new spiritual birth. The Spirit is at all places at all times. Think about the Holy Spirit living in all people. It does not mean there are more than one Spirit. There is one Spirit able to live in every believer. You cannot put flesh and blood on Spirit. Spirit is all over the place. God is Spirit and you must worship Him in Spirit and in truth and you cannot put flesh and blood on Spirit.
When people do not understand and do not know the meaning of God’s word they are subject to being deceived by men (Matthew 24:4-8). Check out the word of God for yourself. When people think that you have to ask God for forgiveness, then according to Hebrews 10:26, they are sinning against the knowledge of the truth. When a person thinks that only his past sins are forgiven, he is sinning against the knowledge of the truth. When a Catholic goes to a confessional booth to get his sins forgiven by a priest, and on top of that, has to do penance, he is sinning against the knowledge of the truth. When a Protestant quotes 1 John 1:9 out of context, and not in accordance with God’s intended meaning, to keep short accounts of sins before God, he is sinning against the knowledge of the truth. When the Reformed Baptist believes that you are only forgiven when you ask for it and God predetermined Billy, the elect he says, to be saved but not Sally, then he is sinning against the knowledge of the truth. All of these examples are a very serious matter to be incorrect on, for it is a matter of life and death. People are sinning against the knowledge of the truth as it relates to the finality of the cross.
A very common way people get deceived is when they do not understand the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant when reading the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Matthew 6:14 is an example of a scripture people just do not understand without understanding the purpose of everything Jesus did. Carl called to get help in understanding why Jesus said “if you do not forgive your brother neither will the Lord forgive you”. Bob urged people to read Hebrews, particularly chapter 10, for the New Covenant is explained in contrast to what the Old Covenant could never do for man and why Jesus went to the cross in order to start a new covenant of grace with man. Bob shared from Hebrews 8:7-13 and Hebrews 9:16-18.
Bob explained how Jesus was saying many things while under an Old Covenant. Jesus taught under the old covenant. He pronounced the new but he taught under the old in order to bury us. Jesus knew that the time he began his ministry until he was going to go to the cross, his ministry was to prepare us to where he was going and that was to the cross. His whole ministry was preparation. Jesus saying things like “be perfect”. We ask, “How perfect?” He says, “as perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect”. We have to say, “Sorry sir, but I cannot pull that off.” Now you are ready for the cross. For if you thought you could and if you ever think you can, then you are not ready for the cross. The law says, “Do not commit adultery”, but Jesus says, “if you look at a woman with lust in your heart you have already committed adultery.” If that is the case, that I am under the law, then I am dead. You can only say, “Lord, I cannot do that”. Jesus says, “I know and now you are ready for the cross.” The law says, “do not commit murder”, but Jesus says, “if you are angry with your brother then you have already committed murder.” You say, “Lord, I had it”. He says, “Now you got it.” When you think you had it, then you got it. Now you are ready for the cross. Under the New Covenant, we are instructed to forgive one another just as Christ has forgiven you (Colossians 3:13).
Another common way people are deceived is the new emergent church and ecumenical spirit in the world today. Dick came out of a Catholic background and saw many good Catholic people and wanted to get clarification on what people have said about Catholics. How many of you have heard a person say, “I know a Catholic who is saved” or “I know so and so is saved because he is a Baptist and they go direct to God.” In both cases, it is very likely neither is saved because they are denying the totality of the cross.
If you are still asking for forgiveness, then you do not believe in Jesus‘ cross. If I ask you to forgive me, then what is the only thing that you can conclude I believe about you? That is, that you have not forgiven me. That is why I ask you to forgive me is because until I ask you to, I have not forgiven me. If I ask you, “please forgive me”, is because I do not think you did. If that is the case, then you have never come to Christ by faith. You have given lip service but you have never put your faith in what Christ came to do. You never put your faith in what Jesus said when he said, “It is finished” (John 19:30). You put your faith in an imaginary Jesus. There is no Jesus in the bible who died for some sins. He came to die for the sins of the entire world, not only our sins, but of the entire world (2 Corinthians 5:19, 1 John 2:2, John 19:30).
They are also adding to what Jesus said to be saved, which is by faith alone. A common question that is often asks is what about James, who said, “faith plus works is dead”. Bob explained this passage in James 2:14 in context. “Faith without works is dead.” What does that mean? Does that mean works is a part of salvation? No, it means true salvation will produce true works. If I am truly in Christ Jesus, then Christ Jesus will produce his works in and through me. It is not what I do for Jesus that counts. It is what I allow God to do through me for the bible teaches that apart from him I can do nothing (John 15:5). And the work is not what we normally think of. When Jesus was asked what work he must do to be saved, Jesus replied, “the work of the ministry is to believe in the one who is sent” (John 6:28-29). For apart from Christ, without the life of Christ living in you, walking in that same faith that you were born again, you can do nothing. So it is not just about believing him for salvation but continuing to believe Him for every single moment of the day. That is what faith and works is all about. So you come to Christ by faith and continue to walk by faith in what he came to do (Colossians 1:20-23).
Transcript
Bobby from Kennedy, TX
Bobby called to comment about false teachers he has heard in the world today. Kenneth Copeland and others are lost people having a good time. The whole thing is phony. I wonder about poor people that go there. They only get trash. He then asked Bob to provide a response to this.
Bob replied. God can use even a donkey and is still doing it. If I were Satan, I would get just enough truth so as not to do enough damage. The truth to get them coming but only enough truth so that you get enough garbage that messes you up the rest of your life.
Bobby replied. I read the bible enough to recognize that Kenneth Copeland is a false teacher. Bobby then said about false teachers, “If they do not go to hell, I do not know who will go to hell.”
Bob only said that what we do know is that people are going there. Who is saved and not saved is where the issue is. In regard to forgiveness, I am looking at Hebrews 10:26. Then Bob continued explaining what Jesus Christ came to do from this passage of scripture.
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
What are you sinning against? The knowledge of truth as it relates to the finality of the cross. Yet people keep going back to their sacrificial system instead of believing by faith in the completed work of Christ Jesus. That is what is meant by deliberately sinning against the knowledge of truth. The truth is Jesus took away sins never to be seen again in the eyes of God.
Yet people will say, “I have to keep myself forgiven”. That is double talk. So if you do not believe in God’s provision at the cross, his death to take away sins in order to give life to man so man can receive new life, what then can be expected? What happens if you continue to sin against the knowledge of the truth?
Hebrews 10:27
27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
There is no other sacrifice for sin. That is very strict.
There is no Jesus who died for some sins. Jesus died to take away the sins of the entire world. There is no Jesus who died for Billie‘s sins but did not die for Gloria‘s sins, as some teach. What are they doing? They are sinning against the knowledge of the truth. They know what truth is. They know Jesus went to the cross to die for the sins of the world. They are spinning the word, saying he died just for the elect. Nonsense. He died for the sins of the entire world. That does not mean the whole world is saved. You are not saved through the death of Christ but through the life of Christ.
Romans 5:10
10For if, while we were God‘s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
When you do not understand that, and you do not want to teach universal salvation, then you have to spin the cross. No, you do not have to spin the cross. He died for the sins of the entire world.
1 John 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
To teach something contrary to that, then what are you doing? According to Hebrews 10:26, you are deliberately sinning after you have received the knowledge of the truth. You are sinning against the truth of the finality of the cross. Salvation for people like that, I do not know. That is God‘s decision. I just do not want to be thinking I am up for grabs. I will trust what Jesus says, that it is finished, to be honest.
Dorothy from Glendale, CA
Dorothy called and said, “You are the only one who teaches truth. A minister got up the other day and said that all you have to do is know Jesus and you are saved.” Bob replied, “How are you going to get to know Him unless you accept him by faith?” Dorothy commented, “But he did not say that.” Then Dorothy asked her question. “There are many Christs and I do not know them. How many Christs are there, if Christ comes in all of us?”
Bob then read the scripture where Dorothy‘s question came from.
Matthew 24:4-8
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.”
This spells out what appears to be happening in abundance in this world. Bob never really took end times seriously, thinking that he was not close to it. But with this upheaval in the Muslim world he is totally in camp today that the end times are close to being fulfilled. Bob thinks Muslims are those who will be instrumental in the uprising towards Armageddon. The Muslims are the ones who want to kill off both Jews and Christians off the face of the earth. A fire has been lit underneath the Muslim world. There will be a number of people claiming to be Christ but do not pay attention to them.
Dorothy then asked her question again, “If each of us have received Christ in us, how many Christs are there?”
Bob answered. There is only one Christ. The Holy Spirit of God is not confined to a person. When we are born again, we do not become Christ. We become indwelt by Christ. I remain a man indwelt by God but I am not God. I do not become God. Jesus is God clothed in an earth suit. You and I are in an earth suit indwelt by God.
Dorothy then said, “I thought when you are born again that Christ came in you.” Bob replied. The Holy Spirit comes to live in you. That does not make you God.
Dorothy then said, “I did not mean I was God, but how many Christs are there?”
Bob answered. You cannot put a number on that. The Spirit is at all places at all times. Think about the Holy Spirit living in all people. It does not mean there are more than one Spirit. That is one Spirit able to live in every believer. You cannot put flesh and blood on Spirit. Spirit is all over the place. God is Spirit and you must worship Him in Spirit and in truth and you cannot put flesh and blood on Spirit.
John 4:24
24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth
1 Corinthians 15:50
50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
Dorothy then asked, “Then he can be coming into people even when they do not ask?”
Bob answered. No. What is revealed to us in scripture?
Revelation 3:20
20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
Jesus says, “I stand at the door of your heart and knock and whoever opens the door, then I will come in.”
What is our role? Our role is to open the door.
Hebrews 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
He must believe Jesus Christ is alive and is truly standing at the door of his heart saying, “if you want life, ask me in”. And if you do that and ask him in, you are born again.
Carl from Atlanta, GA
Carl called to ask what the meaning of Matthew 6:14. It does not make sense to him.
Matthew 6:14
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
It does not make sense does it outside the fact that Jesus is teaching under an Old Covenant and we are living under a New Covenant. The covenant of grace came at the death of Christ.
Hebrews 8:7-13
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:“
The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.10
This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12
For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
All of that took place at the death of Christ Jesus.
Hebrews 9:16-18
16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.
Jesus taught under the Old Covenant. It is not that he did not like the new. He just had not introduced it yet because he had not fulfilled in entirety the law and upheld the law through his death and therefore able to usher in the New Covenant we live under today.
So under the law, what we read in Matthew 6:14, that was the condition of forgiveness. If you forgive your brother here on earth, whom you can see, then your Father will forgive you. If you don’t, he won’t. That buried us. That prepared us for the cross. Today under a New Covenant, a covenant of grace, what is it like now? Under grace we are told to forgive one another as Christ has forgiven you.
Colossians 3:13
13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
Jesus was saying many things while under an Old Covenant. Jesus taught under the old covenant. He pronounced the new but he taught under the old in order to bury us. People often do not understand the purpose of everything he did. Jesus knew that the time he began his ministry until he was going to go to the cross, his ministry was to prepare us to where he was going and that was to the cross. His whole ministry was preparation. Jesus saying things like “be perfect”. We ask, “How perfect?” He says, “as perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect”. We have to say, “Sorry sir, but I cannot pull that off.” Now you are ready for the cross. For if you thought you could and if you ever think you can, then you are not ready for the cross. The law says, “Do not commit adultery”, but Jesus says, “if you look at a woman with lust in your heart you have already committed adultery.” If that is the case, that I am under the law, then I am dead. You can only say, “Lord, I cannot do that”. Jesus says, “I know and now you are ready for the cross.” The law says, “do not commit murder”, but Jesus says, “if you are angry with your brother then you have already committed murder.” You say, “Lord, I had it”. He says, “Now you got it.” When you think you had it, then you got it. Now you are ready for the cross.
All of his teaching was certainly teaching what pure righteousness was from his standpoint but in so doing he is teaching us truth. We do not have an ounce of righteousness in us. We think we do because we weigh ourselves against other people. But when we weigh ourselves against Jesus we fall flat on our face. We conclude, “I have no righteousness at all”.
Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God‘s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Why is no one declared righteous by observing the law? No one can obey it. That prepares us for the cross and the resurrection.
Carl replies, “Thank you, Bob. I learned a lot from you today.”
Dick from Pittsburgh, PA
Dick came from a Catholic background and became an evangelical about 12 years ago and knows it is Christ alone. He says that the Catholic church has great people but they believe Christ plus works. People say, “well that part cancels out the Jesus part of it”. Can you give me your thinking on this.
James 2:14
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
This verse is often summarized as “Faith without works is dead.” What does that mean? Does that mean works is a part of salvation? No, it means true salvation will produce true works. If I am truly in Christ Jesus, then Christ Jesus will produce his works in and through me. It is not what I do for Jesus that counts. It is what I allow God to do through me for the bible teaches that apart from him I can do nothing.
John 15:5
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.”
In this kind of teaching, where you add something to faith, then you subtract something from Jesus. To add to Jesus is to subtract from Jesus. Have you as a person put their faith in the Jesus who went to the cross, who took away the sins of the world, or did you put your faith in a Jesus of your own imagination, who came merely to produce a way by which you can get forgiveness? The answer to that will determine whether you are lost or whether you are saved. There is no Jesus in the bible that went to a cross and died for some people‘s sins and not for others. There is no Jesus in the bible who went to forgive some sins. The only Jesus is what we read about in scripture that the Holy Spirit has revealed to us.
2 Corinthians 5:21
21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
The phrase “in Him” means in his resurrected life.
If you are still asking for forgiveness, then you do not believe in Jesus‘ cross. If I ask you to forgive me, then what is the only thing that you can conclude I believe about you? That is, that you have not forgiven me. That is why I ask you to forgive me is because until I ask you to, I have not forgiven me. If I ask you, “please forgive me”, is because I do not think you did. If that is the case, then you have never come to Christ by faith. You have given lip service but you have never put your faith in what Christ came to do. You never put your faith in what Jesus said. You put your faith in an imaginary Jesus. There is no Jesus in the bible who died for some sins. He came to die for the sins of the entire world, not only our sins, but of the entire world.
When Jesus Christ cried out from the cross and said, “it is finished” (John 19:30), he meant what he said. He did not say, “it is almost finished” or “it will be finished sooner or later”. He did not say, “it will be finished when you continue to keep short accounts with God.” His death on the cross was the final sacrifice of God himself and of such quality that it was able to compensate for the sins of the entire world. When Jesus went to the cross and that work was finished and he said, “paid in full” he meant, “paid in full”. He did not mean “paid in part”. Why are people, not only as in the Catholic church going to a confessional booth, to get forgiveness? That is what they are there for, to get forgiveness from a priest, and on top of that, to have penance to do. Is there any other conclusion that you can come to except the fact that they do not believe they are forgiven? Does that make sense to you? Can you come to any other conclusion that if you are going to Jesus every week and asking him to forgive you, that you do not think he has forgiven you? I cannot think of any other reason to ask someone to forgive you unless you do not think he has forgiven you? How can that be saving faith? And I am not just camping out on the Catholics, the Protestants are just as bad. We just do not go to a priest. We think we have the right to go direct. Whether you go to a priest or direct to God, why are you going to Jesus to get forgiveness? What are you going there for period? Why not just thank him for what he already did at the cross to take away your sins, never to be remembered any more. You do not have to go to a priest to do that or keep short accounts with God or go to 1 John 1:9 to do that. The issue is if you live in faith, you live in faith with the fact that you are a forgiven person. A forgiven person, when he sins, is able to say, “thank you Lord” for what he did, and to praise him that he took away that sin, and not when you ask, but 2000 years ago when he died on the cross.
Hebrews 10 explains so much and people need to read it.
Hebrews 10:26
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
What people have been taught to get away from that passage is to say, “see there, there is that sin, that sin”. The sin is against the knowledge of truth. A person can say one thing with his mouth and with his actions, another. What works are being added to faith? Go back to the confessional booth and get your sins forgiven is a work added to faith. Others believe Mary never had children after the birth of Christ but scripture explicitly states where Mary had other brothers and sisters. What are they doing? They are sinning against the knowledge of truth.
Hebrews 10:27
27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
I am not going to be saved because of works unless my works are saying, “thank you, Jesus”. My works are saying, “I believe what you declared to be true.” They asked Jesus what the works of ministry are. He said, “to believe in me”.
John 6:28-29
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
You come to him by faith. What are the works of a believer? To keep believing what you believed in the beginning.
Colossians 1:20-23 (TLB)
20 It was through what his Son did that God cleared a path for everything to come to him – all things in heaven and on earth – for Christ‘s death on the cross has made peace with God for all by his blood. 21 This includes you who were once so far away from God. You were his enemies and hated him and were separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions, yet now he has brought you back as his friends. 22 He has done this through the death on the cross of his own human body, and now as a result Christ has brought you into the very presence of God, and you are standing there before him with nothing left against you – nothing left that he could even chide you for; 23 the only condition is that you fully believe the Truth, standing in it steadfast and firm, strong in the Lord, convinced of the Good News that Jesus died for you, and never shifting from trusting him to save you. This is the wonderful news that came to each of you and is now spreading all over the world. And I, Paul, have the joy of telling it to others.
If I am continuing to believe I have to keep short accounts with God to keep my sins forgiven, then you are not doing the works of a believer. You cannot be saved denying what Jesus came to do and in what he said, “It is finished.”
John 19:30
30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
You have to make up your mind and grab a hold of truth and question yourself, “If I am doing this, what is it an indicator of?” If I come to you and say, “Did you really say something like that?” That means I am not sure and I am not believing what you said. So if you are going to a priest or to God in prayer and saying, “I need forgiveness from God”, is that true? No, it is not.
2 Corinthians 5:19
19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people‘s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
If you cannot believe what you could have stood and watch what Jesus did on a cross, then how are you going to believe that there is someone invisible inside you, or the invisible God inside you is leading and guiding you into all truth? How are you going to believe that if you cannot believe what you could have seen him come to do. It is quite a serious matter what is going on in the Christian world today, where both Protestant and Catholic, saying one thing and then negating it by what they do that is a denial of the faith they say they have. When talking about faith and works, I agree, that works better follow faith. But the works that Jesus talked about are the works of “believing in me”. So it is not just about believing him for salvation but continuing to believe Him for every single moment of the day. That is what faith and works is all about. So you come to Christ by faith and continue to walk by faith in what he came to do.
Philippians 1:21
21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
Galatians 2:20
20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
