Call-In Classic Christianity Radio – Bob George P414 (2-14-19)
Several callers called in about topics related to salvation. Bob reminded callers of the same basic message of salvation. You are saved from the consequences of sin, which is death, by the gift of God, which is life. The only life available to us is the resurrection life of Jesus. So men must come to Jesus for life. Men must be born again, a spiritual new birth, where God’s Spirit comes to reside in men.
Chad relayed a conversation his wife had with her friend who said that someone can lose their salvation. That answer was based on a misunderstanding of a passage in Revelation about God spewing you out of his mouth. Chad called to get advice on how best to answer. Bob explained the meaning of the letter to the churches in Revelation, particularly in reference to spewing them out of their mouth. He is talking about denominational heads who have gone so astray in biblical truth and conduct that God will remove their lamp-stand. Then Bob addressed the real issue at stake concerning his wife’s friend. If anyone thinks they can lose their salvation then they really do not know what salvation is. By saying such a thing, they really think you can earn salvation. For if you can earn it, you can also lose it. Bob explained what salvation is. Salvation is being saved from the consequences of sin, which is death, by the gift of God, which is life. So salvation is not something you earn or work for, but new life you receive as a gift.
Another caller, Rob, was unclear on why Jesus said he did not come to destroy the law and that not a tittle of the law will be destroyed. People get confused when reading the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John when they do not understand the big picture of God’s dealing with the Jews under an Old Covenant in contrast to those under a New Covenant. One needs to recognize that Jesus spoke as someone under an Old Covenant while speaking about the New Covenant that is to come. The New Covenant was not established until after the death of Christ. Bob first responded to Rob by completing the part of the scripture he left out, “until it is fulfilled”. Then Bob continued to provide a more broad stroke through biblical truth, explaining how Jesus fulfilled the law for man, fully meeting all the requirements of the law that man could never meet, and how he came to show men their unrighteousness by showing men his righteousness. He showed the righteousness that is in Himself, being God in the flesh. Jesus did all this work under law so as to take upon all the sins of the world to take way the cause of death, which is sin, for death is what separates God from man. His death prepared the way for him to be raised again to new life so that in Him all men could also have new life. Bob explained law, covenant and will, and that a will is not enforce until the person who is living dies and how Jesus set aside the old Covenant to establish a New Covenant. Bob explained that Jesus was born a virgin under the law, and spoke to those still under an Old Covenant law or agreement while explaining to them about a new agreement to come. In essence, Bob provided a quite thorough explanation of the gospel of salvation, providing insight into what Jesus accomplished by his death on a cross to complete the Old Covenant in order to rise again to establish a New Covenant of grace with men.
Larry also called on a topic related to salvation. What does it mean in Acts where it is written, “The Holy Spirit had not come because only baptized in name of Jesus.” Bob first replied by saying you do not get doctrine from the book of Acts for it is a recording of events that occurred in the early church. Second, Bob responded with Romans 8:9, explaining that if someone does not have the Holy Spirit then they do not belong to God. Now on those things written in the book of Acts, no one is saved by being baptized in the name of Jesus. When you put your faith that Jesus went to the cross and took away the sins of world and when you put your faith that he was raised from the dead in order to give life to you, that is the gospel that saves. Bob went onto explain some other misunderstanding of what salvation is. Salvation is not getting your sins forgiven. Forgiveness of sins is what Jesus provided by his death. But, you are saved from the consequences of sin, which is death, by the gift of God, which is life. The only life available to us is the resurrection life of Jesus. So men must come to Jesus for life. Men must be born again.
The last caller, Ricky, was a little different than the rest. He asked about an angel with four faces he thought he read about in Revelation. He described what he believed those four heads represent. Bob admitted he was not familiar with those scriptures in Revelation and so has no response as to what they represent. Bob also said that unless scripture provides explicit detail, then what we believe is just speculation of men. It could be right. It could be wrong. Unless scripture provides explicit detail, men may never know. Bob, in essence, does not get bogged down into studying such things, and not that it is wrong that you do, but his focus is for his faith to express itself in love to those he knows today, his wife and neighbors and those he ministers to on radio.
Chad from New Orleans, LA
Chad relayed a conversation his wife had with her friend who said that someone can lose their salvation. His wife’s friend based her response from a misunderstanding of a passage in Revelation about God spewing you out of his mouth.
Revelation 3:16
16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
It is not in character of Christ to say in John 3:36, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life”, and then deny that in the end in Revelation.
The apostle John, the disciple whom Jesus loved, also said this.
1 John 5:12
“Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.”
In Revelation the angel is speaking to denominational heads. You can associate denomination to anyone of those seven churches in Revelation and would match perfectly. There are leaders of these denominations that are neither hot nor cold and God says He will spew them out. There are denominations today I wished he already spewed out. There are denominations that elect bishops who are homosexuals and alcoholics. There are denominations that are flooded with homosexual behavior as part of the priest. Nothing to do with salvation but leadership. Why would God stand aloof, seeing those who once stood firm in truth, to now be misled by new leadership who are leading people into a pit of eternal destruction?
People who say such things, that you can lose your salvation, think they can earn it. For if you can earn then you can also lose it. But if granted salvation by grace, and God is not going to take it way, then you cannot lose it and you have eternal security. Anyone who claims you can lose salvation think they know what salvation is but they do not know what it is. Salvation is being saved from the consequences of sin, which is death, by the gift of God, which is life.
Colossians 2:13-14
3 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[a] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
We are not saved by the cross but we are saved by the resurrection. We could not be saved eternally unless the eternal cause of death, which is sin, is taken away. Jesus took away the cause of spiritual death, which is sin, when he shed his blood on the cross. He took away the sins of the world never to be seen again in the eyes of God. Not because of anything I have done but because of what he has done when he took sin away. There is nothing that can cause me to experience death is the reason I believe in eternal security. Man is free to come to God to receive this life, which is offered when he rose from the dead, having taken away the cause of death, which is sin.
Chad also discussed his struggle in finding a place of believers to be with. Sadly, too many churches teach things that are simply not true. To find a place that teaches truth from one end to the other is not easy to find. People say you should get to a church but then those same people have a false concept of church. And when you leave several churches because those churches are not really assembling in Spirit and in truth, then you often hear a strong reproof or correction from this scripture.
Hebrews 10:25
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Church is not a building with stained glasses and an organ. When it says do not forsake the assembling together, that could be in a coffee shop somewhere. Church is people not a building. To find like-minded believers to be with is what assembling together is about.
Rob from Jackson, MS
Matthew 5:17-18
17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Rob recalled scriptures where Jesus said he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it and at another time where Jesus said that not one tittle of the law will be destroyed. Bob responded first by completing a phrase in the scripture he had left out or did not remember, the phrase “until it is fulfilled”. Rob then asked who said he fulfilled the law? Bob then shared the following scriptures. where Paul said Jesus fulfilled the law and Jesus fulfilled the law.
Paul said he fulfilled the law.
Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Jesus said he fulfilled the law.
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Then Bob continued to provide further background information to help Rob in his understanding.
When Jesus was on the earth, he fulfilled the law. Jesus is the only person who could ever fulfill the law. All of us have sinned (Romans 3:23). All of us have fallen short of the law (Romans 3:23). No one is righteous, no not one (Romans 3:10). The only one able to walk in perfect love is Jesus. God is love (1 John 4:8) and love is fulfillment of the law (Romans 13:10). Therefore, Jesus, as God in the flesh (Colossians 1:15), fulfilled the law he had given to us for we could not fulfill it (Romans 8:3-4). The law had to be fulfilled. It had to be upheld that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).
2 Corinthians 5:21
21 God made him [Jesus] who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
That becoming sin had to bring about the death penalty. That is the upholding of the law. Jesus entered into our death with us. He was sinless and took the price of death for sin upon himself. That is what kept me from having to pay the price for it. So then he gives spiritual life to those who are spiritually dead. That is the whole realm of salvation.
Prior to the cross, Jesus taught under the law. He was born of a virgin under the law.
Galatians 4:4
4 But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
Not that he did not like grace, he just has not died yet. In Hebrews, a will does not go into effect until the one who is living dies.
Hebrews 9:16-18
16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.
A will is a covenant or testament. You have an old covenant and a new covenant, and a covenant is an agreement with God. We could not fulfill the old covenant but he did. Here is the old law that commands us to keep it. We could not do it so Jesus came and did. Therefore, after his death he initiated a new covenant of grace with man. If you do not understand the truth of that then you get confused when you read the gospels. Jesus was teaching under the law proclaiming righteousness. But while living under the law as a man Jesus showed us what perfect righteousness is, in Himself, and not just what he taught, and in so doing showed us our own unrighteousness. Why did he do that? He was heading to the cross to die for sinners. If we are so dumb that we do not agree that we are sinners, what would we do with the cross? Then he had to convince us there is a consequence to sin called death. So if he had not died then what would his resurrection mean? Jesus whole ministry on earth was preparatory, teaching us “we can’t but he did”. Jesus said, “Be perfect”. We cannot do that.
Hebrews 10:14
14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
We can’t but He did. That is the good news of the gospel. That Christ fulfilled the law and the law has been fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Romans 8:4
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Larry from Long Beach, CA
Acts 8:12-13
12 But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
Acts 8:15-17
15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Larry was puzzled on how these people in Acts were baptized in the name of Jesus but had to be prayed on to receive the Holy Spirit. Larry stated, ” There are those who say you receive the Holy Spirit after you believe.”
Bob answered first by saying, “Don’t take doctrine from the book of Acts”. There are those who say you receive the Holy Spirit after you believe.
Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
Romans says if you don’t have spirit of God, you don’t belong to him. What are you born again of? The Spirit. If born again of Spirit, and in Romans 8:9, then how can you be born again without the Spirit? At time born again, the Spirit of God takes residence in your life, otherwise you are not born again. How can people think you can be born again of the Spirit then later on receive the Spirit?
Now on those things written in the book of Acts, no one is saved by being baptized in the name of Jesus. When you put your faith that Jesus went to the cross and took away the sins of world and when you put your faith that he was raised from the dead in order to give life to you, that is the gospel that saves.
Believing in the death, burial, and resurrection is faith alone in what Jesus did alone. Not this plus baptism or tongues. He died alone and was raised alone.
They believed and they were baptized. Acts just records what happened. But did they all really believe? What of Simon the sorcerer? What about those who were baptized in the name but did not receive the Holy Spirit? Acts only records events but does not provide doctrinal detail. Simon saw the miracles, and being a sorcerer, Acts seems to indicate to me impure motives of wanting new additional power to add to the sorcery he already exercised. That is not faith in Christ, and many of them had incomplete knowledge concerning Christ being only familiar with the teaching of John the Baptist.
John 2:23-25
23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name.[a] 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.
Jesus spoke to those who saw the miracles he performed and this is what he said to them.
Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
So who is the one who does the will of the Father?
John 6:29
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
And what was Jesus sent to do? to take away the sins of the world to only rise again so that whosoever puts their trust in him may live
What is the one and only sin that keeps people from God?
John 16:9
The world’s sin is unbelief in me
Bob said, “When talking about believing, I believed in Jesus all my life but I was not saved until I was born again.”
You are born again when you put your faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ. Not an intellectual assent to facts. I can believe that Abraham lived, died, and did certain things, but just knowing those things makes no difference to my life today or tomorrow or the die I die. But Jesus died so I could live. When he died he died to the law so that I too could identify with his death and with dying to the law be raised to the newness of life.
Salvation is not getting your sins forgiven. It prepares you for salvation. It is a part of it but it is not salvation. You are saved from the consequences of sin, which is death, by the gift of God, which is life. The only life available to us is the resurrected life of Jesus. Until Christ comes to live in you, then you are not born again.
John 3:3
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. Born again means I have received spiritual life (read the entire conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3). Salvation is Jesus coming to live in you. I put my faith in Jesus when I was born again when I believed what he did was for me. Acts is not a doctrinal book. Anyone who has knowledge of biblical interpretation would ever say Acts is more than a historical account of what happened. In regards to Simon the sorcerer, Peter was recorded as saying “perhaps God will forgive you for this”. That is just a record of what Peter said. If that was a doctrinal book, then we should say to people, “perhaps God will forgive you”. No! We say God has already forgiven you when he died on the cross. Why did Peter say that? I don’t know but Acts just records what Peter had said.
Ricky from Los Angeles, CA
Ricky asked for confirmation about what the angels with four faces in Revelation represented. I believe he forget where he read. I believe he is referring to this passage in Ezekiel.
Ezekiel 10:14
Each of the cherubim had four faces: One face was that of a cherub, the second the face of a human being, the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.
Ricky claimed that each of the different faces represented a different gospel. For example, the face of a man represents Luke. That is the first time I heard that explanation! I have heard that they represent nations, like Lion for England since a lion is known symbol for England, or Eagle for United States, etc. I certainly do not know the meaning and do not claim I do.
Ezekiel is another one of those books like Revelation that are written in Apocalyptic style. As such, unless explicitly spelled out in detail for you by other scriptures, then it is truly speculation to understand what it means. Unless it is spelled out in detail then it is truly speculation. What I do with those things is that I am not going to be preoccupied with the end or the beginning, but one day at a time. I need to get along with my wife today, my neighbor today, and not tomorrow. Prophecy is there and we do not always know what it means. We can speculate and sometimes we can be wrong on that. From Bob’s standpoint, he will personally launch onto those things he knows is true.