Call-In Classic Christianity Radio – Bob George P475 (9-20-19)
Ernest from Strausburg, PA
Ernest: I have a quick question on 2 Timothy 2:12.
2 Timothy 2:12
12 if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
Ernest: What does that mean?
Bob: A person who denies Christ, Christ denies them. He accepts our non-acceptance. You say you do not want anything to do with God. Then He says that He will not have anything to do with you either. It would be like a person who says, “I do not want to be around this person”. Then he says, “I do not want to be around you then”. (Of course, God is patient and waiting for a person to change their mind, longing to be gracious to him.)
Bob: Now talking about Christians. If you are faithless, then he will remain faithful for he cannot disown Himself. When you come to Christ, you have not denied Him because you came to Him by faith. But you can be faithless, that is, you can choose to not continue to walk by faith. In the midst of that, He will remain faithful because He cannot disown Himself, because You and Him are one now.
Ernest: That confirms eternal security that when we are unfaithful, he remains faithful. That is good stuff.
Ernest: For biblical interpretation, what questions do you ask yourself when you read the scriptures? Major on majors. What do you consider major truth that everything else needs to abide by?
Bob: As far as biblical interpretation, context has to determine the ultimate interpretation. The literal interpretation of the bible has to come from the Spirit of God, revealing the truth of it. Context is how He does that. You do not go to the obscure to interpret the obvious. You go to the obvious to interpret the obscure.
Bob: As an example, you may have heard a caller last weekend, a person trying to interpret scripture out of context. He was calling to justify his position that Jesus sinned. What is the answer to that?
2 Corinthians 5:19
19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 5:21
21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Bob: God the Father identified His Son as the one who knew no sin. That should settle it. That is a very obvious passage that is not open for interpretation. You should not have to go any further than that. If someone who tries to argue against something like that, then they are not listening to truth but merely trying to make a point. Those kinds of things are disturbing to those who love the Lord.
Ernest: Many people do not understand when the New Testament started. It started after the death of Christ. Jesus taught under the law. Many will focus on the teachings of Jesus but not understanding that he taught under the law.
Bob: He buried us under the law.
Ernest: If interpreting scriptures in light of the Old Covenant, then we understand more clearly. Am I interpreting that right?
Bob: Jesus came to explain the meaning of the law. The people did not know the meaning of the law. Jesus gave the law so we may recognize we are sinners so we would turn to Christ for salvation. The Pharisees and the Sadducees, the religious leaders of the law, took the law as a means to salvation. They used the law contrary to what was intended. The law was used to shut our mouths, to shut our mouths in regard to our own righteousness. Instead of using the law as a mirror to show our face is dirty, they used the law, as people do today, as a means to obedience to make me righteous in the sight of God.
Ernest: The law was never intended for us anyway. The Gentiles were never under the law. Just the Jews were.
Bob: Instead of using the law as a means of obtaining righteousness, Jesus came to explain the meaning of the law. Paul also came and explained that.
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Bob: Righteousness is a gift and cannot be earned. Jesus came to explain what the law was, and in so doing, he buried us under it. Man looked at outward obedience, such as not committing the act of adultery. Jesus got beneath the skin. He explained that even if you look at a woman lustfully in your heart, you have already committed adultery. So you agree that you have had it. (You agree with God like the Paul who said, “What a wretched man I am! Who can save me from this body of death?”) Then you are ready for the cross. (“Praise be to God through our Lord Jesus Christ.”)
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Ernest: The New Covenant starts after the cross and everything before is the Old Covenant. Jesus taught under the Old Covenant and the New Covenant not there until he died. And the teaching was for the Jews. And all teaching applicable to the Jews.
Bob: Very applicable to all of us but pointed to where he was, and that was Israel.
Ernest: I ask myself In light of the New Covenant, in the finished work of the cross, how do I interpret this passage. I learned that from you, brother.
Bob: Thank you. That is how you have to look in light of the New Covenant, the finality of the cross, in light of the life of Christ Jesus, is how you interpret a passage of scripture. If you are not funneling through those things, you are not interpreting correctly.
Ernest: Thank you. It is like the old adage, “You cannot please everybody. You will be lucky if you please half the people half of the time.”
Bob: Disturbing to me is that people want to defend somebody that comes up with something they obviously no nothing about. There is no such thing as a dumb stupid question. But when you give an answer, and they keep defending the error, then wisdom is out the window with that.
Ernest: That is like scripture that describes the Jews as stiff necked and obstinate people. Someone is set in their ways saying, “Do not confuse me with the facts. My mind is made up.”
Bob: I can almost tell by inflection of a person’s voice, and that is through experience, if they are there to really get an answer or are there to get their bias across. That come from years of experience. There are denominations that teach Jesus did sin. They would say, “He was just like us and overcame it”. That is erroneous teaching. A lot of things people do not know and so they judge you on their lack of knowledge. That is part of the game. We are very privileged to be here and to try to help people.
Ernest: You certainly do. I have been listening to you since the late 80’s on the internet. I hope and pray you are on for many, many years.
Bob: Thank you so much. Bless you brother. Feel free to call at any time.
Brannon from Annandale, VA
Brannon; I have a question on the concept called inner healing and deliverance ministries. They want to get you to go back into your childhood and forgive people and go back into your past and get demons cast out. I know demons were cast out in the Old Testament. How do we look at such things like that today?
Bob: It says that if you cast one out seven more come back and the man is in worse shape than he was before. The only real casting out of demons is to get the right man to come in so the wrong man goes out. There is no such thing as casting out a demon without putting Christ in the body, that is, Christ coming to live in you. If you are going to do true exorcism, you are going to lead someone to Christ. When you lead someone to Christ, He comes in and the wrong man comes out. Quite frankly casting out of demons is no more and no less than really good evangelism.
24 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ 25 When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26 Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.”
Bob: All those kinds of things, deliverance ministries, and those sorts of things, is hocus pocus. There is only one source of deliverance and that is Christ Jesus and you do not need to go into hocus pocus. It is getting people to see what their condition is, the provision of God and getting people to agree and put their trust in that fact and be born again.
Brannon: The concept people are getting into is that demons cannot indwell a believer but demons can gain footholds in your life so they need to be cast out.
Bob: Well, if they cannot be indwelt then how can you cast them out? You can be influenced by demonic activity. We all are influenced by demonic activity. That is why we need to know the truth and to have our minds continually renewed.
Ricky from Fresno, CA
Ricky: I have friends tell me I have to be baptized to be saved. I have others who tell me I have to confess to the Lord. I do not know what to do. I am confused.
Bob: There is no place in the bible telling a person to be baptized to be saved. The people probably who are telling you that are “Jesus only” instead of in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist said he came to baptize you with water but that after him would come someone to baptize with the Holy Spirit. That person is Jesus.
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.”
Bob: When a “but” is there, it means there is a contrast. Water is outward baptism. Outward baptism is a visual aid of the internal baptism of Christ Jesus. You are saved by the life of Christ Jesus. You are baptized into the body of Christ Jesus. That is a spiritual act, not a physical act. When baptized into the body of Christ, that is what places you in the body of Christ. What places you in the body of Christ, whether Jew, Gentile, slave or free, we are all new creatures in Christ, you are placed into the body of Christ. How does that occur? When by faith, and faith alone, we see our condition of spiritual death and accept His resurrected life as our life and we see ourselves as sinners and accept the cross as the only way for the forgiveness of sin. Recall what the apostle Paul said in reference to baptism.
1 Corinthians 1:13-17
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel – not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Bob: So if baptism was in the gospel, and baptism is what saves you, then how can a man say that he did not come to baptize but to preach the gospel? The gospel is what saves you.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve
The gospel is spelled out in 1 Corinthians. Jesus died on a cross to take away the sins of the world. He was buried. Burial is the proof of death so he could usher in this new agent of grace, which is giving life to the dead. There is a consequence of sin called death. You are born into this world dead spiritually. The only solution to spiritual death is spiritual life. The only life available to you is the resurrected life of Christ Jesus. So when we see our condition, “I am a sinner”, then now you have a reason for the cross, to walk by faith, to trust Jesus to take away my sin, the consequence to being a sinner and that is death. Christ Jesus was raised from the dead so that life that raised him from the dead will raise you from the dead. The only way you will ever come alive spiritually is through the resurrected life of Christ Jesus. This happens by putting your faith in what Jesus accomplished for you apart from anything you can do. There is no outward signs, no baptism or speaking in tongues. Salvation is all of Jesus and none of us. All we do is receive the provision God has provided for you and that provision is Jesus.
Ricky: Other friends tell me about Acts 2:38 where he tells people to be baptized.
38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Bob: He tells people to be baptized because of the remission of your sins but not to get remission of sins.
Bob: You are a new believer. You never go to the book of Acts for doctrine. The book of Acts is not a book of doctrine. You never get any doctrine out of the book of Acts. It is an historical account of the works of Peter and Paul and their works of formation of the church. Let us look at one example in Acts to make this more clear to you.
34 For neither was there among them any that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto each, according as any one had need.
Bob: Nobody looks at that as a doctrine today. If they did they would not have any money in their pockets. But that is what the early church did.
Bob: Baptism was something done continually by the Jews in order for a Gentile convert. They baptized a Gentile who wanted to become a Jew. Ceremonial washing was a common practice among the Jews. In the book of Acts, when talking about “repent and be baptized” is because of the remission of sins. Baptism is what was identifying you with the Triune God.
Bob: You get doctrine from the gospels and then explanation of the gospels by the apostle Paul’s writings. Quit listening to friends and to me and open up the word of God.
Bob: Are you saved Ricky?
Bob: If you know you are saved and you know Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior, then how can someone tell you to do something else to be saved when you know you are saved?
Ricky: They told me that in John 3 that Jesus said he had to be born again.
Bob: Jesus does not have to be born again. He said we had to be born again. You are born of water. That is natural birth. You were born in a sac of water. You are born of the water and the Spirit. It goes on to explain what that means. The flesh gives birth to flesh. The Spirit gives birth to spirit.
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Bob: A lot of water enthusiasts out there. The truth about those people who are talking to you is this. They really do not believe what they are saying. They are saying you have to be baptized in our waters in their church. Where do you see that in the scriptures?
Ricky: No where.
Bob: Right. I do not believe they are saved. They are cultist. There are people running around with wrong information and may be sincere but they are sincerely wrong. Hitler was sincere but was sincerely wrong.
Pam: How does fasting relate to the Christian faith?
Bob: I do not know. I have never seen a benefit of theirs. I think fasting means holding on to your faith. A spiritual fast is not going out depriving you of holding out on physical food. The most spiritual fast you can do is to hold onto those things you know to be true.
2 Thessalonians 2:15
15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
Bob: The other thing that takes you is having people who deprive themselves of food. If doing that because you are so preoccupied with the things of Christ is doing right now, then that fasting becomes a by-product of your preoccupation with Christ. But to go out and be fasting to make you more preoccupied with Christ, then that is ridiculous.
Pam: Praying and fasting and combining the two, I did not understand how that went hand in hand?
Bob: When you hear people fasting to save America, then that is not true. God does not save countries. He saves people. So much of that type of thing going on.
Bob: What I find is people in this country and what you hear people talking about is, “If you do not want to do anything else, then pray. I pray and pray but I never study scripture. I never share Jesus with anybody. I never study the bible and I never led anyone to Christ, and never led a bible study but I pray”. Then what do you think those prayers are doing? Do you think your prayers are changing the heart of God? That you are the initiator to God and God is therefore responding to you? If that is what you believe, then you have put yourself in the position of being greater than God. If I can cause God to react to me, then I am greater than God. That is what most prayer is, “I am praying to get God to do something”. If God wants to do something, He is going to initiate that and you are going to respond. Do not think you are going to initiate and He is going to respond. It is not that we loved Him but He loved us first. We do not initiate to God our love and expect Him to respond to us in some way. We would not even love God if He did not love us first. We are made by God to be responders, not initiators. So many times in prayer and fasting, it is if I pray and fast, then God has got to do something. And, if I can get a whole bunch of people together doing this, then for sure God will do something. That is pretty heretical to me.
1 John 4:19
19 We love because he first loved us.
1 John 3:16
16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.
Pam: I agree.