Classic Christianity – Bob George – Callin P406 (01-18-19)
Bob receives calls from several people about asking for forgiveness. They are hearing from friends or those in church that say you need to ask God for forgiveness whenever you sin. Bob explains how this kind of thinking comes from denominational teaching and often from a misinterpretation of 1 John 1:9. Bob explains the false teaching of the Gnostic that were there at the time these scriptures were being written and that group, along with the Judaizers, is the group of unsaved people the Apostle John is initially talking to. In essence, John is saying: “If you ever come to your senses, and I doubt if you ever will, but just in case you do, Jesus Christ, who is God in the flesh, he is faithful and just to have forgiven you of your sins and to have cleansed you of all unrighteousness. Bob says that for anyone to believe both that your sins have already been forgiven by Christ’s shed blood on the cross and that you then must also ask God to forgive you whenever you sin is being double-minded and the truth of God is not in him. How nonsensical it is to believe both at the same time! Anyone who believes he asks to ask God for forgiveness is certainly unstable in all his ways for he is not walking in faith. The truth is that all our sins have already been forgiven at the cross. The real question to ask is : Did not Jesus finish the work he came to do at the cross? His death, burial and resurrection was so that we may believe in Him unto eternal life. By his death he cleared the way for all to come to him for life now that sin, the cause of death, is taken away. And we have life in his name, by our total faith in his finished work alone, because he, being God with no sin of his own took my sin, and he did rise from the dead so as to grant me eternal life by the Holy Spirit he has given me. So do you see that you died with Christ and have been risen with Christ also, a spiritual new birth?
Bob also got questions regarding the role of woman in leadership role in a church over men. Bob answered by referring to 1 Timothy 3, the qualifications of a deacon or elder, by the Apostle Paul to Timothy. Here is also insight in the book of Genesis as to God’s design for creating women with different roles than men. Bob essentially says that women should not be in authority over a man and should not be placed in leadership roles over men in the church.
Bob identified with those who struggle with the need of acceptance. He shared with George what God taught him through the scriptures for him to grasp that he already has complete unconditional love and acceptance in Jesus Christ. Romans 8 and the book of Ephesians are great books to ponder and let the Holy Spirit teach you.
Bob also addressed question that Regi asked concerning the end times. Are we in the end times now and if so, should that be something we should be concerned about. Bob shared that often times too much or improper perspective on end time events can cloud your thinking or distract you from living in the present, fulfilling the purpose for which God created you, the assignment He has given for you to uniquely do, His life to be lived in you and through you.
Tim from Detroit Michigan
Tim wrote down two questions he heard from a co-worker who believes you have to repent every time you sin. He answered the best way he knew how but he wanted more clarification because he felt his answer was not as effective as he would have liked to answer.
Tim’s first question:
“If all sin was forgiven at the cross, why then are people condemned for rejecting Christ? Isn’t rejecting Christ a sin?”
Bob answered by saying that the person is refusing to believe what Tim and he are saying. Everyone is heading toward a destiny. God started creating the world, and from the first day of creation, he was heading for a final day of rest. At the end of seven days of creation, the end of creation, in Genesis God said it is good. In essence, the work of creation is finished. But Jesus was heading for the final day, another final rest from the work of securing our salvation. When we are saved, we are headed for heaven. In meantime, destiny is not the desert but a Sabbath rest. Read Hebrews 4 for more thorough learning by the Holy Spirit on these things.
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
On the seventh day he rested, but there is still another day in which he will rest when he is seated at the right of God. And he has finished the work at the cross, completing the work God assigned him to do. Are you resting from your works just as He did from His?
At the cross, Jesus said “it is finished” (John 19:30). In our arrogance, people say it is not finished. They are essentially saying it is paid only in part. Some will even say God just opened a door and we must work to ensure we get to our final destiny. Others say we must ask for forgiveness to make sure we get to heaven. But God says our sins have already been paid in full, and that 2000 years ago when Jesus shed his blood on the cross.
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Others say that it is a sin of presumption to presume one has eternal life. Yet God’s word says something else.
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
Rather it is not faith but presumption to think that you must ask God for forgiveness for sin for God’s word certainly does not teach that! So if anyone is asking God for forgiveness every time he sins, then he is walking in total unbelief, which is not pleasing to God, for you are not believing what God has said concerning His Son.
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
People think they are pleasing God by boasting about what they do. But it makes no sense to ask God for something he has already accomplished for you. Jesus said it is paid in full. When a builder builds a home, it would make no sense to get a hammer and nails and try to remodel the house. Let’s not get our hammers and nails and build something better than what God has done. What arrogance and pride! Can you take away all your sins? Can you raise yourself from the dead?
That person needs to some sense knocked into him with a two-by-four to get his attention. I can understand someone who has never heard but once someone has heard, I certainly do not understand why he cannot understand. Is believe in God a work? Of course not! It is accepting something as true. The reason sin is unpardonable is because there is no way God to forgive it. God is not going to die for the forgiveness of your and my sin and then say it is okay for you not to believe in it. That makes no sense! The rejection of the work of the Son of God is what causes man to remain dead spiritually. He does not become dead because he is already dead, and the wrath of God remains on him. And if he dies in that condition, he dies in his sin in the uncircumcision of his flesh. He seems like someone trying to trap someone rather that get an answer. If you told him the truth, move on and shake the dust off your shoes.
Tim asked the second question he had written down:
“If there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, then why does God say he disciplines those he loves.
From Hebrews, one learns that God disciplines us for our good, a positive thing.
Hebrews 12:6 [discipline]
because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”
Hebrews 1:1-4 [punishment]
We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2 For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
2 Peter 2:9 [in regards to Lot who God said was righteous by his faith; recall Lot was rescued from the rain of sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah whom God judged]
if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.
Punishment is for sin. So discipline and punishment are two different things. Punishment is for the ungodly and the sinner, for the unsaved and the lost. Discipline is for the saved, the child of God. If God did not discipline us then we are not one of His children. Discipline is a sign we are one of his. As one learns from the Holy spirit living in you, teaching you from His word, he is disciplining your mind, renewing your mind with truth. In the world, we are bombarded with messages that are anti-bible and anti-Christian.
Curtis asked: “How do you feel about a woman being a pastor of a church?”
1 Timothy 3 gives pastoral instruction on being an oversee. It is very clear that woman are not to be pastors.
1 Timothy 3:1-4
Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect.
It is clear that Paul is writing as to a man, someone who has proven to be faithful to his wife. A woman is not to be in position of leadership over a man.
Even in Genesis, one sees that God gave man to be responsible for his wife. Adam received the command to not eat of the knowledge of good and evil and the woman was created for man and not man for woman and woman is the glory of man as Paul speaks in 1 Corinthians 11:7. That was God’s choice in creation, different roles for men and woman. This is not saying that a woman is inferior to man.
The problems that can occur when a woman is in leadership over man is that she would go home and lord it over her husband as well. It is God’s plan for a woman to have a different role than a man. No more reason that a woman should be in war in a boxing ring or go into the military to fight wars.
Curtis asked a related question:
“If your church invites a woman who is a pastor of another church to come and speak?”
Essentially the same answer. How is that different than having one in your church. So why invite one in your church? It is like saying “We don’t believe this, but y’all come.” That is double-minded.
Curtis then closed by thanking Bob for other teaching he heard in regards to tithing and other things. He thanked him for helping him seeing truth in a different perspective contrary to what he had been hearing or had been taught. He is grateful for Bob’s teaching.
Regi asked if we are living in the end times now. Bob said that we have been in the end times since Jesus was crucified. But what Regi is really asking is are we at the end of the end times. People have have been speculating on that throughout the centuries and today. God gave us signs, like birth pains, in Matthew 24. But we have been through many of those in the past. So we have to be watchful, and keep looking. God give us his word in regards to end times event so that we can be prepared and not be afraid when we see certain things coming to pass and so that when the signs are more clear we can look up and know that our redemption draws near.
When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”
We know there will be a time in history when the rapture will occur among the saints, whether pre-tribulation, pre-wrath or some other time period, and God knows and we are all growing in such knowledge. Yet as times get close to the end, the wise will understand and teach many. The rapture is a Latin word meaning “to be taken up” and is referenced in 1 Thessalonians 4.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
Bob’s primary focus has been on the present, letting Christ living in him and through him, to present truth to men so men can walk in true freedom. So the details into studying end time events has not been a high priority for Bob. Before those end time events occur, Bob says he will die unless such event happens in a hurry. As you know Bob has gone from this world to be present with the Lord. So he has already gone ahead of the rest of us. And he will rise before us to meet the Lord in the air, assuming we also do not die before the rapture occurs. If we die, we also will be absent from the body but present with the Lord. All of us are waiting on our end times.
2 Corinthians 5:8
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Bob says that he does not see the point in thinking of death all the time but to have a life to live in the present, fulfilling what God wants him to do. He served his assignment well and I am certain God has said to him: “Well done, good and faithful servant.”
Regi also asked if demon possession is possible? Yes, but not by a believer. Bob has not run into anyone into a deep demon possession. Not any demon possession that is in accordance with the evidence he has seen in the Old Testament. Just look at the condition of the world and you can see the demonic influence. For a person who is demon possessed, the solution is to get the right man in to get the wrong man out. Get Jesus in a man is what causes a bad guy to leave. It not doing an exorcism on a man but to get Jesus in the man.
George was expressing his struggle with being a people pleaser and performance based acceptance. He also felt rejection from his wife. He called to get help from Bob.
Bob identified with him for he testified how he once suffered being a people pleaser until he understood truth that he is accepted in the beloved. God is love so he has to love me, but to be accepted was different, as Bob stated his struggle.
But understanding the complete and unconditional acceptance from God changed Bob’s life. The greatest desire of Bob’s life was fulfilled in Christ Jesus and at that point in his life he did not even know it. Romans 8 was of particular help in renewing his mind to grasp God’s unconditional love and acceptance.
31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
An often quoted passage by Bob is this from the book of Ephesians. Ephesians is an excellent book to understand what you have in Christ Jesus. So rich in expression in all that you have in Christ Jesus!
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestined us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Bob says he does not have to be in bondage of whether someone loves him or not. If someone does, then great because of God to do through him that He wants to do, to reach and love others. If don’t, then their problem. Nothing can separate you or me from the love of God. People can let you down but God can’t and won’t. That is a secure place to be.
In politics, media loves daylights out of someone to get him elected but once elected then tears him down. Get away from human acceptance, which is so fickle. God is not through with you yet but accepts you as you are. No longing for something to be taken care of because I have it already in Christ.
Chip also shared about a conversation he had with a friend from church over the topic of asking for forgiveness and what his friend was trying to persuade him to believe in regards to saying that in same way you ask someone to forgive you of your sins you should ask God to forgive you when you sin. He was using 1 John 1:9 to persuade Chip in this manner.
1 John 1:1-9
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our joy complete.
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
Bob responded by saying that Jesus dealt with sin at the cross. You recognize mistakes and move on with life. The Apostle Paul was given revelation to write the new testament. Never once does he say to ask God to forgive him.
2 Timothy 2:15
15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
We are to study the scriptures to find yourself approved of God. Yet people would rather trust what their denomination teaches than what the word of God teaches. And the Apostle Paul clearly heard from God as an Apostle, one who was taught of God and whom was an eyewitness of Jesus. It is wise to look more closely at the scriptures, letting the Holy Spirit teach you. And look also at context as to who someone is writing to, so you can correctly handle the word of truth.
In 1 John 2:9, John was dealing with Gnosticism. Gospel of Judas all out of Gnostic teaching. They were not Christians but anti-Christ. This is heretical Gnostic teaching. “All matter is evil and only the spirit is good. Therefore Jesus is not in existence because body does not matter and therefore he was not there, but just a phantom in our imagination yet Jesus was there.” To correct that heretical teaching, John starts off with his testimony as an eyewitness who saw the Lord with his own eyes.
1 John 1:1
which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched
Gnosticism in the early century after Jesus was almost as popular as Christianity. People love mysticism and the intellectual, about knowledge you don’t have which is really no knowledge at all, or gifts you don’t have, which is really just mysticism and imagination. Such doctrine became popular, co-mingling with Judaism. Gnostic’s say does not matter what you do with the body, for only the spirit counts and were teaching lasciviousness. Gnostic’s believed they did not have a sin nature. This is why John wrote:
1 John 1:8
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
Who is truth? Christ. Who is not in them? Christ! That passage is for the lost anti-Christ, claiming to be without sin, and thus making God out to be a liar.
So Bob is addressing Curtis’s friend when he says : “You say it is all about sin and you call God a liar when He says it is finished and you say but when you are down here and your son does such and such. Quit talking about your son, we are talking about God. Quit bringing God to our human level in how you deal with your children. We are talking about what God did. God took away the sins of the world. You can’t bring those two thoughts together under one camp; that ‘God took away sins’ with ‘if I confess sins, then you are forgiven, and if I don’t he won’t’. That is double talk. Jesus took away sins of entire world. If that is true and truly believe it is true and want to walk by faith, without which you can’t please God, then only one response you and I can have is thank you. Only one response to have when you sin is to say thank you. It is a matter of faith.”
Now John starts writing to the believers later on when he writes:
1 John 2:1-2
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
The Gnostic heresy existed at the time those books were written. People claiming to be without sin. What John is essentially writing to the Gnostic while addressing the reality of the truth in believers is this: “Don’t know if you will ever come to your senses and I doubt if you ever will but just in case you do, then realize this, that he is faithful and just to have forgiven and to have cleansed you of all unrighteousness.”
Yet there are those who will listen to what their denomination says rather than accepting what the word of God reveals by the Spirit.
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